If Sabino Doesn't Cause Blue Eyes...Why....

It is likely splash white. Do you have any photos? It is theorized that only splash and frame cause blue eyes and frame is rare in QH's as most were weeded out to the paint registry, but there were a few minimals left in.

There is plenty of splashed white in QHs to explain blue eyes (with a few frames floating around).

Yep, Splash....curious, though, as to why you did not think it was simply Splash?

Probably because many people think splash is rare and not found in QH... but that's just what I've been told by other people, it may not be the case here.

This is a QH and this is the [i]definition[/i] of splash:
[img]http://stabledays.typepad.com/.a/6a00e5…]

Also splash can be as minimal as a star or sock. This guy has ONLY a blue eye as an indicator:
http://colormorgans.tripod.com/gsvrembr…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://colormorgans.tripod.com/gsvrembr…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Splash is believe to be an incomplete dominant, so any LOUD version is believed to be homozygous. Check this out:

Sire:
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/…]

Dam:
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/…]

Foal:
[img]http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/…]

However, frame IS a possibility. There are some lines of it in AQHA. Frame tends to hide better than splash does IMO.

This horse is frame positive:
[img]http://www.dreammakerminis.com/pictures…]

WOW thats one LOUD baby out of those parents - still amazes me what you can get sometimes

I did consider splash but I very quickly wrote it off as it seemed unlikely considering he is QH not Paint lol. I know I know, I'm still getting my head around the fact that some QH carry splash/frame etc. It is very difficult to change soemthing you've always thought to be true though. So cut me some slack here - I'm a relative colour newbie ;)

I'll try and get some pics of him later today - have to look at a truck this morning . For anyone interested in bloodlines re: colour etc his sire is Helter Kings Black Magic and dam is Tassys Playgirl.

I did consider splash but I very quickly wrote it off as it seemed unlikely considering he is QH not Paint lol. I know I know, I'm still getting my head around the fact that some QH carry splash/frame etc. It is very difficult to change soemthing you've always thought to be true though. So cut me some slack here - I'm a relative colour newbie ;)

I'll try and get some pics of him later today - have to look at a truck this morning . For anyone interested in bloodlines re: colour etc his sire is Helter Kings Black Magic and dam is Tassys Playgirl.

Nice foal ! as the white extends over the ears does that mean he/she will be deaf?

[quote="supaspot60"]Nice foal ! as the white extends over the ears does that mean he/she will be deaf?[/quote]

Only if it made it to the inner ear I believe. Morgan's splash boy Chase is deaf and his white does not cover his ears. Then there are non-deaf splashes with white in the ears...

[quote="Hey What The"]I did consider splash but I very quickly wrote it off as it seemed unlikely considering he is QH not Paint lol. I know I know, I'm still getting my head around the fact that some QH carry splash/frame etc. It is very difficult to change soemthing you've always thought to be true though. So cut me some slack here - I'm a relative colour newbie ;)

I'll try and get some pics of him later today - have to look at a truck this morning . For anyone interested in bloodlines re: colour etc his sire is Helter Kings Black Magic and dam is Tassys Playgirl.[/quote]

A lot of QH's went to the paint registry, but that is where it originated....in QH's. "Crop outs" that is. Then came the TBs too.

This filly is an AQHA (not even double registered) out of two very minimal AQHA parents.
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…]
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…]
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…]
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…]

Her dam
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…]

Her sire
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/…]

And her pedigree for you
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/splash+…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the difficulty people have with splash is that they only think of the most expressed forms as being the ones that have it. Just today I saw a warmblood horse that had that tiny thin snip and star that can sometimes be splashe's minimal expression. The horse turned its head and *bam* bright blue eye. Splash is [b]a lot[/b] more prevalent than is commonly thought. The more I carefully study white markings, the more I see that 'normal' chrome markings that would be attributed to sabino are really minimal splash.

Like the buckskin stallion above I would have [b]absolutely[/b] said was splash with no doubts in my mind and most people would :rofl :booty at me. But he's clearly proven it. Now the dam... I think she'd have surprised even me.

Good call on the WB MP!

I'd've said splash more likely on that dam than the sire since the dam's blaze is falling into her left nostril. I would say sabino +/- splash on the sire without having seen his offspring.

Is it? I thought it was straight (blame my bad eyes). The sire's face white is way to bottom heavy to question splash IMO.

I adore this horse and I SOOO believe this is 100% splash at work:
http://www.sbrformulaone.com/images/ABR…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is exciting to me is to see when this mare bred to him foals :bounce :bounce :bounce :
http://www.dreamhorse.com/photos/jan/14…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I love splash for those "explosions" :lol: So much fun...
And just when you think you've got a hang on it something goes wrong like V's mass whiteness minus the tail tip and without the "bucket dunk" head. :S Her pattern still bothers me...
Quarter horses have a lot of potential for white patterns. My mare (V's dam) is almost entirely quarter horse http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sassys+…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; with that one paint (tobiano) line (Q Ton Dixie Alpha's dam) which was fairly normal tobiano until something got added in and exploded the Splash. I have yet to track down a picture of Cowboy Ranger where the white seems to have really taken off judging by his descendants.

Isn't V tobi though??

OK then, here's a challenge. I agree that the modestly-marked relatives of loud splashes tend to share a characteristic type of pattern that can be visually identified. However, I have seen this very pattern identified in TBs fairly commonly, and yet loud splash is rare--[i]too[/i] rare--in TBs. With the exception of Hey What The's line, can anyone point to any typical, loud (supposed homozygous) splashes in TBs? Does the absence indicate some suppression or something in TBs, or could it be that the 'minimal splash pattern' we identify does not always imply the presence of 'splash'?

*tisk tisk* Who knows? Does that count as a valid answer? :rofl

I completely agree and RMT & I have had this discussion many times. I think there's two possible answers. 1: I do very much believe there is some type of suppressor bred in and preventing some of the loudest expressions. Since there was a white rule and since some breeders don't want much white regardless of the rule that anything loud was thrown out for a while, thus breeding in some type of suppression. 2: I think [i]some[/i] of what we see is actually DW. DW can mimic splash [i]quite[/i] well. However... there are some blue eyes floating around to be accounted for.

If there are a lot of supressors bred into TBs then is it possible that a 'flashy' long socks and broad blaze TB IS h/z splash and the hetero ones are the coronet band, snip and star ones. To get a maximum one the horse would have to be h/z and have few/no supressors? lots of supressors means that hetero is mostly missable and h/z is expressed at the minimal ammount.

I like how the more we learn, the less we attribute to sabino :lol:

heck..before you know it..sabino will just be the roaning we call sabino roaning...and that is it..haha

It is nice that the different white patterns and such are being identified though...I remember back 10 years ago and think...wow....we've come such a long, long way!

Same with Arabs.....the really "splashy" ones were not prized, there were quite a lot here at one time, but the rule in the show ring was against flashy horses, (even in the Arab ring, over here you do not normally show Arabs in open classes. I did but I am ornery :booty ) and so high whites, as with the Dancing King lines, were frowned on, a little. A flashy horse had to be that much better in order to win, shall we say?
Not a lot of blue eyes, though, not that I can remember....a couple with one half blue, obviously that counts....

Ok, so I finally managed to get some pics of my new boy. Please welcome 'Stanley' lol, so named cause he was a bit of a tool to get on the float when we picked him up :)

On further inspection I do believe he may definitely be Splash as I have just noticed that the white on his face wraps around into his left nostril. Yay! Oh and BTW - what colour is he?? bay or buckskin?? I'm leaning towards buckskin.

IMPO that's splash. I'm seeing buckskin, but he could VERY easily be bay. Tough one.

I see Splash also as he has a blue eyes!
And Bay.........but of course there could also be Sabino, for some reason there usually is.

Yeh I reckon bay too, and yes splash for the main markings and blue eye. And well of course sabino usually hangs around too :roll:

[quote="lillith"]If there are a lot of supressors bred into TBs then is it possible that a 'flashy' long socks and broad blaze TB IS h/z splash and the hetero ones are the coronet band, snip and star ones. [/quote]

I also like this theory, I mean I look at the coloured/gypsy cobs and I think most of them would have to have splash, and they don't all end up with really wild markings.

So much of what I used to call sabino I now think of as splash, even chin spots etc.. So wouldn't suprise me at all if even the ones I still think of as sabino end up being splash!

The only thing that stops me from going all the way towards splash is the mostly no socks on Shetlands, and they often have splash... :? So maybe sabino does still do normal type socks!