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How to tell difference between Sabino, Gray or Roan ?

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raknrydr
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How to tell difference between Sabino, Gray or Roan ?
I have a Loud Black Sabino TWH. I am seeing quite a few in the area now and the owners are calling them Gray or Blue Roans, to me they look like Sabinos, but I have forgotten what are the tell tale differences in them. Roan- should have solid base colored legs,mane,tail and head, no white markings ? Gray- dark skin, white at the bottom of the tail working its way up. Sabino- can have pink skinned areas under white like on muzzle, white stockings, belly, throat splashes, face blazes. My farrier has a new TWH that is a nice light even silver all over with 2 tall hind stockings and 2 front stockings and a big blaze face with pink skin on the nose, but I have not noticed any other splashed white patches like mine, would his also be a sabino ? His has not seemed to have darkened for the winter though, and my sabino right now is already in his charcoal black stage, not the real light blue silver he is in the winter. Do all sabinos darken in the winter like a roan horse does or is his horse a roan with stockings ? I do not have a picture at the moment either.
RiddleMeThis
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raknrydr wrote:Roan- should

Roan- should have solid base colored legs,mane,tail and head, no white markings ?

True roans can have any type of white markings. They could technically be solid white from their markings. Or they could be solid. Completely depends on the other genes. And usually the do have solid colored legs, mane, tail, and head but sometimes the roaning will slightly spill over to those areas especially in young horses.

Gray- dark skin, white at the bottom of the tail working its way up.

Usually, but not always.

Sabino- can have pink skinned areas under white like on muzzle, white stockings, belly, throat splashes, face blazes.

Sure but it can also cause white at the bottom of the tail or all over the body and roaning all over as well.

My farrier has a new TWH that is a nice light even silver all over with 2 tall hind stockings and 2 front stockings and a big blaze face with pink skin on the nose, but I have not noticed any other splashed white patches like mine, would his also be a sabino ?

Any white marking that isn't caused by tobiano, frame, splash, or DW is caused by some form of sabino, and being he is a TWH, with those markings, he is most likely positive for Sabino 1. So yes he would be sabino, but he could also be true roan at the same time, and he could also possibly be gray as well.

His has not seemed to have darkened for the winter though, and my sabino right now is already in his charcoal black stage, not the real light blue silver he is in the winter.

Do all sabinos darken in the winter like a roan horse does or is his horse a roan with stockings ?

Most sabino roans I have seen only darken minimal in the winter if at all. It's mostly the true roans who darken/lighten substantially with the seasons.

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raknrydr
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So my farriers horse could be

So my farriers horse could be a Roan with stockings ? Blue Roan or technically Black Roan ?

When I first got my TWH I thought he was a Blue Roan with alot of chrome, but I knew something was different since he had all the splashing on his body.

I thought most Roans went almost back to there base color in the winter.

My Sabino is pictured in his winter coat on this forum as the model "Cruz" under white patterns sabino.
He never gets real black but more of a charcoal black compared to my Tobi mare and my husbands solid black, but a very dark version compared to the summer avatar color.

RiddleMeThis
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raknrydr wrote:So my farriers

So my farriers horse could be a Roan with stockings ? Blue Roan or technically Black Roan ?

Yes he could be.

When I first got my TWH I thought he was a Blue Roan with alot of chrome, but I knew something was different since he had all the splashing on his body.

He could still be a blue roan with a lot of chrome.

I thought most Roans went almost back to there base color in the winter.

Most true roans do yes, but some are the opposite. Some roan in the winter and are solid in the summer. But thats just true roan. Sabino roan tends to stay most of the year, but not always.

My Sabino is pictured in his winter coat on this forum as the model "Cruz" under white patterns sabino.
He never gets real black but more of a charcoal black compared to my Tobi mare and my husbands solid black, but a very dark version compared to the summer avatar color.

I think he's just sabino roan. But better/bigger pictures would help.

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RiddleMeThis
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raknrydr wrote:So my farriers

So my farriers horse could be a Roan with stockings ? Blue Roan or technically Black Roan ?

Yes he could be.

When I first got my TWH I thought he was a Blue Roan with alot of chrome, but I knew something was different since he had all the splashing on his body.

He could still be a blue roan with a lot of chrome.

I thought most Roans went almost back to there base color in the winter.

Most true roans do yes, but some are the opposite. Some roan in the winter and are solid in the summer. But thats just true roan. Sabino roan tends to stay most of the year, but not always.

My Sabino is pictured in his winter coat on this forum as the model "Cruz" under white patterns sabino.
He never gets real black but more of a charcoal black compared to my Tobi mare and my husbands solid black, but a very dark version compared to the summer avatar color.

I think he's just sabino roan. But better/bigger pictures would help.

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Daylene Alford
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Here's an example of a

IMAGE(http://colorgenetics.info/equine_gallery/d/6420-2/neverendingstory6-24-12a.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=1345257e03813f6bc5780b56c0949080)

Here's an example of a classic roan with white markings from the gallery. http://colorgenetics.info/equine/gallery...

and another classic roan

IMAGE(http://colorgenetics.info/equine_gallery/d/4585-2/july-27-2010-838.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=1345257e03813f6bc5780b56c0949080) http://colorgenetics.info/equine/gallery...

Classic Roan with body white (notice the dark head)
IMAGE(http://colorgenetics.info/equine_gallery/d/771-2/poloshot32.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=1345257e03813f6bc5780b56c0949080)
http://colorgenetics.info/equine/gallery...

Sabino type roaning notice how the white tends to "clump" rather than be evenly spaced
IMAGE(http://colorgenetics.info/equine_gallery/d/2056-3/Vines+Gypsy+Black+Sabino+Mare.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=1345257e03813f6bc5780b56c0949080)

Another example from the white patterns page
IMAGE(http://colorgenetics.info/images/cruz.jpg)

A gray that looks a bit "roany" Notice how the face is a bit whiter than the body
IMAGE(http://colorgenetics.info/equine_gallery/d/1079-3/Grey+Pony+Sideshot+-+Copy+-+Copy.JPG?g2_GALLERYSID=1345257e03813f6bc5780b56c0949080)
http://colorgenetics.info/equine/gallery...

Another gray that is darker
IMAGE(http://colorgenetics.info/equine_gallery/d/1085-2/Greying+Pony+-+Copy.JPG?g2_GALLERYSID=1345257e03813f6bc5780b56c0949080)
http://colorgenetics.info/equine/gallery...

Grays tend to be lighter on the "ends" meaning head and tails. Also, grays will get progressively lighter as they age.

As with all colors we speak in general terms and there are always exceptions but I hope this helps a bit.

raknrydr
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My horse is the 5th example

My horse is the 5th example down on the last post.

Maybe my farriers horse is a Sabino Roan and the sabino is what causes the Chrome? it looks very much the same shade and markings minus the belly white, as the Polo pony. but his horses head is not darker and he said it gets darker in summer where as my sabino does the opposite, gets darker in the winter.

Ok I took a few pictures today of my TWH lets see if I can post pictures, I have been having problems lately.

Daylene Alford
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I have always really liked

I have always really liked him. I love his color and he always looks so calm.

raknrydr
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admin wrote:I have always

I have always really liked him. I love his color and he always looks so calm.

Thank You, I bought him as a underweight 2yr old and I just knew when I got weight on him and he grew up he was going to probably be hotter than I wanted, but nope same puppy dog personality he had when I bought him, just has more life and go now, but really laid back.

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raknrydr wrote: Maybe my

Maybe my farriers horse is a Sabino Roan and the sabino is what causes the Chrome? it looks very much the same shade and markings minus the belly white, as the Polo pony. but his horses head is not darker and he said it gets darker in summer where as my sabino does the opposite, gets darker in the winter.

Correct. The sabino gene (as far as I know) can cause the white pattern, as it's a form of pinto. And unlike normal roans, sabino roans have white hairs mixed in everywhere, including the head.

Here and here are some examples of a sabino roan.

~ MitashiaR

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Sabino in TWH's is CRAZY

Sabino in TWH's is CRAZY anyway, it just seems to go into expression overdrive! You get black based animals expressing in a way I have only seen in Red based males in other breeds....

website: please come and visit... http://www.shadowplayminihorses.co.uk/

MitashiaR
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Wait, do male horses tend to

Wait, do male horses tend to express sabino more than the mares? And yeah, TWHs absolutely do have crazy sabino expression.

~ MitashiaR

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CMhorses
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I think males express more in

I think males express more in general than females, I know someone mentioned that Lp positive mares can express more roaning during a pregnancy because more testosterone is in their system, and then loose the varnishing when not pregnant.

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Daylene Alford
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Yes, males tend to express

Yes, males tend to express more than females in general and also red based colors tend to express more than black based colors.

Speaking of which does anyone have a link to the paper that documented the link between sex and expression? I don't have it listed in the references.

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