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Guard dog breeds

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I'm wanting to get a guard type dogs since my goat herd is growing and I'd like to make sure it keeps expanding. I'm familiar with Great White Pyrenees and one wouldn't be to hard to find around here but was wondering what other breeds ya'll might recommend. Thanks, Daylene

Heidi Tue, 08/18/2009 - 10:35

My first suggestion would have been a [u]Great Pyr[/u], but I also had two other dogs in mind, one was the [u]Akbash[/u] (lady in Canada uses two to guard her large herd of sheep) and another breed that was black/tan/white, and from the link I think is the [u]Anatolian Shepard[/u].
heidi =^..^=

Here is a link my Google search pulled up. Livestock Guardian Dogs.
http://www.lgd.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Google search-page of hits:
http://www.google.com/search?q=livestoc…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

vneerland Tue, 08/18/2009 - 10:58

A lot of the names on any list are just that. Names on a list. :oops:
Maybe some distant relatives, 15 generations ago, helped bark at the predators, but I have few illusions about the true remaining capabilities in many of the Livestock guardian breeds. And that actually includes the great pyrenees. Not all are made the same. The goat at my vets office this saturday can attest to the fact that they too can attack goats as good as any stray mutt pack. :o And yet, there are many that work very well around a herd.
For me, the following breeds seem more likely to contain working candidates:
Akbash, Anatolian, Bergamasco, Estrela Mountain Dog,
Great Pyrenees, Kangal Dog, Komondor, Kuvasz,
Leonberger, Maremma Sheepdog, Tatra, Tibetan Mastiff.
The best rule of thumb is to select what you want, from stock that does what you want. ;) (get a pup of any breed of your choice from parents that are active livestock guardians, and you just really increased your chances for success)

lipigirl Tue, 08/18/2009 - 16:42

If it was me and I was looking for one then I would sugggest a Pyr, Kommndor, Anatolian or Estrela - Leos are great dogs but they are not usually used to guard herds.

Heidi Wed, 08/19/2009 - 10:24

I thought I saw an Animal Planet show, Breed All About It, that discussed guardian dogs. I think it was the Great Pyr (great, white, fluffy) and it showed a puppy (approx 4-6mo old) actually *living* with the livestock they would eventually guard. From what I remember about the program, the comment was the dog needed to bond with the livestock and it showed the dogs following the stock around the pastures and keeping watch.
I also think the program discussed how the people needed to interact with the dog, but to do so in a businesslike way; no uffy-wuffy-fluffy crap. More of an I-am-the-alpha-and-what-I-say-goes, you-WILL-yield-to-me-in-all-things. So the guardian dogs do need to be socialized and bond with their people, but they need to bond a bit more with the stock they are to guard.

vneerland Wed, 08/19/2009 - 15:45

Heidi,
That is how an aquaintance of mine lets his pyrs grow up. I do have mixed feelings about it myself. The dogs are out with the goats 24/7 regardless of the weather. They have zero personality and equal amounts of (normal) sense. Effective to keep his goats safe. And the Pyr that lived 'next door' when I moved out here (dog was abandoned at the weekend house) was capable of a gentle wag and a nap under my parked cars, but other than that, it just hung around and took to the woods at night. :o It was harmless and sweet. But not loaded with personality. (I am spoiled in the 'personality' department though)

[quote="Heidi"]I also think the program discussed how the people needed to interact with the dog, but to do so in a businesslike way; no uffy-wuffy-fluffy crap. More of an I-am-the-alpha-and-what-I-say-goes, you-WILL-yield-to-me-in-all-things. So the guardian dogs do need to be socialized and bond with their people, but they need to bond a bit more with the stock they are to guard.[/quote]

:laugh1 And here I am, thinking that [i]all[/i]dogs should live by the 'your human is the alpha' rule. ;) Ah yes, but the companion breeds often get away with murder. Who cares if foofoo pulls. He is easy to hold. :? Alpha human can still spoil the dog rotten, IMHO. One does not exlude the other, but I do agree that a livestock guardian might be less effective for the stock if he/she were sleeping on the down comforter at night. :twisted:

[quote="Morgan"]I believe with any breed of guardian dog the pups have to be "trained' by an adult :)[/quote]

Maybe not so much 'trained' (though that might not hurt either) but possessing the required temperament. Those chances increase if the parents have the required character traits themselves.

critterkeeper Fri, 08/21/2009 - 21:38

I can attest to the qualities of the Pyr...I miss my Mariah to this day. She died saving my husband and son from a mountail lion attack...they were chopping wood and cleaning up deadfall and didn't even know the cat was in the area. She was full of personality (loved people to death) and yet was a great guardian dog - she never even barked at the barn cats, but let a preditor show it's face on the farm and she was on it in a heart beat. When new babies were born on the farm, she was right there to "assist" the mommas by standing guard over them and the newborns. :o3

We got Mariah when she was 8 months old from a man who could no longer care for her due to a physical injury (she was not properly leash trained and pulled). Mariah came from "show stock" and had -0- training other than being introduced to all the "critters". She would spend her nights sleeping in the barn or run-in sheds with the horses while watching over the fields. Needless to say - one day I will get another one (once the current group of canines depletes - I am down to only a dozen now. :rofl )

I personally would NOT recommend a Tibetan Mastiff as a guardian of livestock - people yes, animals NO. I buried too many of my "babies" that were lost to my TM, Kat (reg. as Katmandu's Katkanpur). She was beautiful and loved people (just like a Pyr) but she would not tolerate ANY other animal around that she was not raised. Those victims included one longstanding "pack member" who'd simply spent a couple of days at the vets for surgery (it was a very trumatic and scary attack - she even broke down a door to get to "Peaches"). :o :sad

Okay, that said - even though BC's are known for their herding abilities, they also make good guardians for the flocks.

I don't know much about the other breeds outside the Bernies (Toby is a good watch dog and guardian, but at 14 yrs old he isn't what he used to be).

Daylene Alford Mon, 08/24/2009 - 08:32

Thanks for everyone's replies. I think after reading through these posts the best route to go will be to contact the guy down the road to see if he will have any pups available. He uses his dogs to guard a rather large heard of sheep so the puppies should have the right bloodlines and a good start.

CMhorses Mon, 11/16/2009 - 11:40

We have a Great Pyrenees, good dog, but will not stay home at all. Never seen a dog that just runs off and never comes back like that before. We got him neutered, and it didn't fix anything at all. The neighbor got one too and all they did was run off together, would end up 10-20 miles away. I heard from someone that some in lexington on a farm have big triangular collars to keep them from going through the slats of the fences.
So now our poor dog has to stay chained on a farm :hammer instead of guarding the chickens, which he was excellent at when he was home.
The neighbors pryenees and our coon hound are still gone, they all ran off together in august and we had someone call us that found ours in october, but we have had calls of people seeing the other 2 so maybe we can still find them before winter.

Have you ever considered getting a guard donkey? I know my Ellie guards stuff even though she is a mini and she never brays unless something is up, but you are not supposed to get minis for guarding.Also they are just the sweetest things.

lipigirl Mon, 11/16/2009 - 12:51

LLamas are amazing guarders of herds and can chase off a lot of the smaller preditors - just another idea.

CMhorses Mon, 11/16/2009 - 16:35

Only downside to llamas is they are not that great against larger things like coyotes, and they don't have hard feet or mouths for striking and biting like a donkey does, but I don't know if they are much cheaper or not.

lipigirl Wed, 11/18/2009 - 17:20

Yep that's what put me off getting a donkey along with the noise was the fact they don't generally get on with dogs !

CMhorses Wed, 11/18/2009 - 18:06

Ellie never brays unless there is something wrong, but of course she is the only donkey in miles. She is fine around dogs unless they are being stupid and chasing/being aggressive like my cousin's dog. I know guard donkeys are not supposed to be raised around dogs at all if you want them to fight off coyotes and stray dogs.

Krickette Wed, 11/18/2009 - 21:53

A Llama can most certainly kill a cayote.
Problem with donkeys is I know with calfs they can get mad and kill one.

Downside to llamas is they are about the hardest thing ever to rope if they do get away from you, lol!

I researched guard llamas a while back because i've always wanted a llama.....

CMhorses Wed, 11/18/2009 - 22:43

Never heard donkeys attacking anything other than other donkeys before. I know stallions are extremely aggressive to other males. Also I'm sure it depends on how they are raised and what they are raised with.

rabbitsfizz Sat, 11/21/2009 - 11:39

My donkeys were brilliant, but, again, they do have to live with the herd and bond.
I had two as Donks speak a different language from horses, so I bought Molly someone to talk to (Lucy). They were a hoot.
Lucy used to barrel up the field honking and flapping her ears on her neck, it was incredible and, the first time it happened, the horses had a heart attack!
But I never had any stray dogs in my field!!
Apart form when she was in attack mode they never made any noise, either, as there were two of them. Part them at your peril!!
Komondors would be hopeless guards, the strains brought in have little to do with the original dogs and the coat is ridiculous, it was never, ever meant to look like that!!!
No-one has mentioned the Old English Sheepdog.
Again a coat that does need clipping back, but that is easy enough to do, and if there is any chance of fly strike in your flock/herd make sure you get an undocked puppy, but they were originally Guardian dogs, living with the flock, and although you would have to search for the right temperament now, they are worth a thought.
Pyrs I have head bad things about,]The ones I have known have been as much fun as a cold rice pudding, but they were show dogs, so That might be part of it.
Making sure you get working lines can also backfire, we have had two reports now of Pyrs attacking and horrifically injuring Minis.
Anatolian/Karabash crosses are being used in Africa to guard flocks against Cheetah, I think if they can be trusted with goats that are the only livelihood means of a family, to guard against African Big Cats, they are probably worth a look!!