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Oz foal.


Here is my February filly. A bit late for us here in OZ, but she is very cute anyway. Dad is homozygous black & mum is bay silver. She was born looking dark bay, but is shedding out jet black. Have never had a black foal born looking bay, so guessing she is probably seal. [attachment=1]cindy.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=0]cindy 2.jpg[/attachment]

accphotography Fri, 03/27/2009 - 13:41

She's GORGEOUS! I agree about seal. Mom must be homozygous agouti.

thorwood Fri, 03/27/2009 - 18:45

Thanks, she really is a cutie, will try & get some photos today, so you can see what colour she is shedding out.

ACC, her dam is out of a black silver & by a chestnut.
I guess she could be homozygous agouti.
Are seals supposed to be homozygous for agouti???
But not all homozygous agoutis are seal????

Here is mum a week or so before she was born, & another with her just born.

[attachment=1]candy 3.jpg[/attachment]


thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 05:02

Her paddock name is Cindy (courtesy of my daughter choosing the name).
Her registered name will be Cinnamon.

Dakota, was having a really good look at her today & she
sure looks black.
Will have to try for those pics tomorrow.
Can a horse that is born looking bay actually be black???

dakotakdq Sat, 03/28/2009 - 05:16

mine was born looking brown, went black, then brown and now black! :)
A test is easiest way to tell 4 sure. :P

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 05:19

Yes, you are right a test would tell me for sure.
But the only things she can be are black or seal & I am not really fussed.
Well, she could also be silver, but I can't see any evidence of that at all.

Songcatcher Sat, 03/28/2009 - 07:07

Can a horse that is born looking bay actually be black???

I wouldn't call this one Bay looking, but certainly not Black. He was born a couple of years ago out of a Sorrel Pinto mare and a Black stallion.

After shedding his foal coat, he looked like this:

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 07:18

Just amazing how the foal colour can be so different to the colour they shed to.
Songcatcher, in those pics, that baby looks like a buckskin to me & shed out looks
a bit like smoky black. But then black & brown can sometimes both look like smoky black.
Do you know what colour he actually is???

My black foals have always been this colour.

[attachment=1]alice2 jan 9.jpg[/attachment]

This is a black foal out of two non fading blacks, one heterozygous & one homozygous.

Songcatcher Sat, 03/28/2009 - 07:28

I never tested him, and sold him as a short yearling. He was a glossy Black by that time. There is a chance he could be a Smokey Black as his sire has a foal registered as a Palomino out of a Sorrel mare. His sire is also a very glossy Black. Almost a blue hue.

Songcatcher Sat, 03/28/2009 - 07:31

Here is a picture of the sire of the colt I posted above:

And here is his dam: (heavy in foal)

accphotography Sat, 03/28/2009 - 14:42

ACC, her dam is out of a black silver & by a chestnut.
I guess she could be homozygous agouti.
Are seals supposed to be homozygous for agouti???
But not all homozygous agoutis are seal????

No seals are not necessarily homozygous for agouti. However it is believed that seal is recessive to normal bay. So if your mare looks like a normal bay, but throws a seal to a black, she's likely homozygous agouti (carrying both seal and normal). However, since your mare is carrying a dilution, it's hard to say for sure what type of bay she is visually. In the first photo of her (with the foal) I though for sure she was normal bay, but these other two photos have me guessing. Based on her dam supposedly being black, it's probably more likely she's just a seal herself as opposed to being both. I'd love to see a test.

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 18:43

I don't know about the theory of seal being recessive to normal bay, it doesn't seem to hold true. I remember a discussion about it on the old
forum. I have a normal red bay mare from two seal parents.

Mum's dam is a dark chocolate colour, similar to my minimal silver colt (in my avatar pic) & was actually registered as liver chestnut.
LOL, so far she has produced 4 bay silver fillies & one non silver bay, all by the same chestnut stallion.
She is quite clearly NOT bay.
I have pics somewhere of the marbled legs & silver mane & tail of my mare when she was younger. She has the
striped feet as well.

Sara Sat, 03/28/2009 - 18:47

Thorwood, I remember that you were the one who had a horse who blew the seal theory.

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 18:49

LOL, I wasn't trying to!!! Just the way it is.
From memory though, there were other people who either had or knew of red bays
from seal parents.

Monsterpony Sat, 03/28/2009 - 19:03

I thought the research being done had found that the seal gene had been located near to agouti and wasn't actually another allele of the gene.

Daylene Alford Sat, 03/28/2009 - 19:57

LoL here we go again...I think maybe we should start a new thread for seal and maybe sticky it to the top of the genetics forum?

accphotography Sun, 03/29/2009 - 01:03

Actually, the last I heard it IS IN agouti. But of course there's no "proof" yet, only a man's word.

I would LOVE to see any normal bays produced from two seals (or a seal and a black). That's something I've been trying to find a long time, as well as wild bay from normal bays or normal and black.

thorwood Sun, 03/29/2009 - 01:16

I will start a new topic for you. This one is getting off topic.
Look in Equine Colour genetics in a few moments.

Fledgesflight Fri, 04/03/2009 - 07:14

I missed this thread :oops: She's beautiful- Congrats! :flower :flower