Breeds that carry recessive black
I thought I'd try to make a list of breeds that carry recessive black. If you know of one feel free to ad it to the list.
1. German Shepherd Dog
2. Shetland Sheepdog
5. Belgian Shepherd Dog (Groenendaels)
The Rough Collie & Smooth Collie are both recessive black.
Are those considered two different breeds or different types within the same breed?
Smooth & Rough collies are essentially the same breed, but are classified separately. At one time they were interbred freely, so the gene pool will be the same.
Re Belgian Shepherds - I always thought they were K, at least the majority? I forget which paper it was but the Groenendael breed [Belgisn Sheepdog] was tested and the majority were K with a few aa and one or two a(t).
I looked into this when I got my own dog - Belgian Shepherd x Border Collie. I couldn't understand how two black dogs could produce a Fawn. His father was a pedigree Groenendael, mother a black & white farm-bred BC. There is only one explanation - the K gene was present, and I think on the father's side (it would make sense if the BC was recessive black, as they too derive from the same genetic root stock as Smooth & Rough collies).
Looking at his father's pedigree it is clear he did carry a gene for Fawn a(y). I worked it out at the time, it could only have worked if the father was Kk ay a-, and the mother kk aa.
I'll try to dig up that paper about the K gene in Belgians.
Yes, you are correct in that the Belgian Shepherd Dog (Groenendaels)has both dominant black and recessive black in the breed. If you can dig up that paper that would be great. I don't think I've read that one yet.
Welcome to the site!
Welcome to the site!
Thanks :) I should have posted an intro first - sorry... rather than jumping in, but Belgians and K/recessive black are in my sphere of interest!
I can't seem to find the original paper online any more but it's summarised and referenced(ish)here:
I'm sure it should be possible to find the original work by Dr Sheila Schmutz.
I may start a new thread especially about Belgians, as there are a few interesting questions I have, not least that as 'grey' diluted fawn Tervuerens are not a TYR gene, could they be the same dilution that gives Grizzle in Salukis.