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Due to decreasing use over the years, I have decided to disable the forum functionality of the site.

Forums will still be available to view but new posts are no longer allowed.

The rare red dun appaloosa thread

I went ahead and deleted the thread at appyfqh's request. I think that was probably the best course of action considering she already has bad feeling about the board and I think keeping the thread would have only made matters worse. Now about Rabbit. We all love her but I do think she was out of line. Well I think they both were but without Rabbit adding fuel things wouldn't have progressed to the point of us loosing a member. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. Daylene

Daylene Alford Mon, 03/16/2009 - 21:21

Oh btw I found out appynqh is a he...

I don't think that colt (or his dam) was dun...even if the dam was dun there was only a 50/50 change the colt was. He mentioned he had had problems on forums in the past. It might be best that he is gone.

accphotography Mon, 03/16/2009 - 21:55

I agree. Frankly I kept wishing someone would bring him down a notch and was relieved when RF did. By the same token I don't like the idea of losing members solely due to RF. People need to have a tougher skin. I do suspect you're probably right that we're better off.

FWIW I didn't see dun on either, and I also thought both were bay.

Sara Mon, 03/16/2009 - 22:08

He wasn't going to work out here. I knew right off there would be fireworks with Rabbit and I was actually glad when she lit into him. I don't think Rabbit was in the wrong at all. Appynqh was condescending right from the start and if he truly had been lurking on the old forum (as he implied) he would have understood a little more about the feel of our group here.

I don't know about you guys, but when I join a new forum I lurk for quite some time before posting so I can get a feel for the social/political atmosphere before I jump in.

Daylene Alford Mon, 03/16/2009 - 22:20

Well he asked that I also delete his account and I complied.

Ya hehe I'm starting to wonder if my Willy (bright clear chestnut) is a bay :laugh1 :rofl but seriously I would love to see some test results on these horses wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to be proven wrong.

Sara Mon, 03/16/2009 - 22:40

You guys will be the first to know when I test my mare!

I think that guy was overly sensitive, or argumentative, or something. When did he mention that he's had trouble on forums before? Was that privately to you?

edited to say: I know I've had disagreements with posters here as well, but it's the asking to be deleted bit that seems odd... over one thread.

accphotography Mon, 03/16/2009 - 22:58

He told me that in the PM that asked me to remove the thread and his membership. He made it sound like he'd been ripped to shreds many times before and was "over" being part of forums that would allow that. He even said he hides his real name these days because of it. :laugh1

Monsterpony Tue, 03/17/2009 - 01:59

I agreed with Rabbit on that post. I almost typed out a message saying that A) red dun is definitely NOT rare, B) few spot is not all that uncommon either and C) How the bloody heck can you tell a few spot is a red dun? I had a near few spot appearing appy that there was no way I would have been able to even guess at his base color let alone if he carried a modifier on top of that. The fact that he was boasting about an untested horse and then reacted badly when several educated people tried to point out that he couldn't really tell rubbed me wrong from the start.

Maigray Tue, 03/17/2009 - 06:41

I didn't read the thread, so can't comment. If a member wants gone, then by all means, let them go. I would have kept the thread up though, so that everyone can see for themselves what the issue was, what happened, and make up their own minds about it.

Heather Tue, 03/17/2009 - 06:58

I think also with the group now being open to new personalitys the "origionals" need to make extra effort to be inviting and not so quick to pet the cat backwards. If a person truly has a chip it will show its self over and over but that was awful quick to loose a new member. I think there was more politically correct way to address opnions in that thread that would not have been so agressive and put appy on the defense. Moderators can set in and try to play ref. and cool things out and make light of it and often settle it down before it gets to out of control and maybe a PM or two to make personal contact to make them feel important, i think the goal is to have membership grow, is it not? Your not going to like everyone, accept that fact.

Sara Tue, 03/17/2009 - 11:23

I was going to PM him after I read some of the early posts to try to welcome him and also gently tell him that he was on his way to ruffling feathers, but then as it progressed I changed my mind because I could see he wasn't going to be the type to listen. He rubbed me wrong from the first post or two as well and I tried to be open-minded (it's happened before that someone annoys me at first and then as I get to know their personality it turns out I rather like them) but he was on a course to crash and burn no matter what anyone did. That's how I saw it, anyway.

NZ Appaloosas Tue, 03/17/2009 - 18:31

Wow--another forum where when I go away the mice all play! LOL

As to Wayne, I do "know" him, from several other forums and lists, and well, being caustic without realising it is pretty much his style. And yes, he does puff up like a banty hen when it is pointed out to him that he could be wrong. I'm not sure why, but I get the definite feeling he's trying to run with the "big dogs" while not going thru the steps to become a big dog...on one forum, he more or less boasted about being the responsible party for bringing AAA into the International Incentive program that the ApHC has. Now, in that case, his role was that he had brought AAA horses to the attention of certain directors at the time, but he was out for inclusion for HIS horses, not wording anything in particular to address the idea that international affiliates all spring from the original ApHC horses, and should be at least as acceptable as the three non-appaloosa breeds...

On Rabbit, I feel she needs to be reminded that the board's goal is to bring in new members, and she needs to keep in mind that not everyone has the level of knowledge that the original posters have--some will have more, some less--and that to keep a positive flow about the board, and make it THE place to come for answers, we all need to be more educational and less dictatorial when trying to help people.


accphotography Tue, 03/17/2009 - 18:35

I agree with almost everything said here. Makes me sound gullible and like a pushover, but the fact of the matter is that I have always been good at seeing both sides. :laugh1

Daylene Alford Tue, 03/17/2009 - 18:47

I think I'm willing to let Rabbit slide on this one. But we all need to be more vigilant. If it happens again with a new member I think we need to send her a warning.

Is that ok with everyone?

accphotography Tue, 03/17/2009 - 20:58

Me either. However I do think it depends on the situation. If she's right, she's right. LOL! AKA if the person is really rude to her first or something. There have been plenty of times I'd have been happy to smack RF, but many times she's right. :lol:

Sara Tue, 03/17/2009 - 21:32

Yeah, that's the thing -- rabbit was (and usually is) right. She's British and blunt and that takes a bit of getting used to but the rest of us have. The board would not be the same without rabbit's brutal honesty and I'd hate to tone her down.

If you do send her a warning, remember she is in a lot of pain...

Daylene Alford Tue, 03/17/2009 - 21:52

I was hoping if a warning needs to be send one of you ladies would do it /cowers at the thought of Rabbits wrath. :twisted:

I'll be gentle.

Anyway I do have a question....Is there any merit to her saying the that colt might not be a few spot but a varnish? I was under the impression that few spots where born and varnish happened with age...

Guess I should go ahead an post that in the color forum....

accphotography Tue, 03/17/2009 - 21:55

I'm a bit shy to do it as well, but if it's truly warrant, I'm sure I'll muster the courage.

As far as the fewspot thing, I agree with you. RF is of the opinion app genes are incredibly unpredictable (probably due to her belief that they are polygenous) and thus I think she may believe some horses can be born varnished enough so as to look fewspot. However based on what I have seen, the markings on that foal are *classic* of fewspot. The placement of what little color was left is NOT seen in varnish, but virtually always in fewspot... IMO.

accphotography Tue, 03/17/2009 - 21:59

Oh, if you want me to do it I can. I have a pretty good relationship with rabbit even though she thinks my Welshes aren't very nice. ;)

Meh... she's used to a different type of Welsh the way I see it. Speaking of which, I spent several hours this afternoon looking at Glenhaven's website. Someone mentioned to me that Frodo had a full sister who was a homozygous splash so I went hunting. It took me a long time to find it because it wasn't Frodo... it was Corey. :laugh1 Some super, super, super nice ponies in those families IMO.

*gah* I wish Andrea would do AI. I know at least three people that would breed to him in a flash.

Sara Tue, 03/17/2009 - 22:20

in all honesty.... I'll tell you that I don't like heads like Frodo's. It's just a personal thing but it's why I didn't buy him in the first place. That head isn't sought in the hunter ring.

If your friends like the family and the splashy ponies, go with Sultan himself. His fee is very reasonable.

I know the sister of Cory you mean. There is also a full brother (gelded) that is very nice.

accphotography Tue, 03/17/2009 - 22:28

I love his head, but I *did* wonder if that was desirable or might be considered a bit *too* extreme. I guess seeing some foals by him might give me a better idea of how set that head really is.

Lace has a pretty plain head... I think it would be hard to bring her head anywhere near his level. :lol: However, since we know Sultan is splash, and Lace is, and I adore Sultan too, there's really no particular reason to lean to Frodo.

Sara Tue, 03/17/2009 - 22:34

It's a personal thing in Welshes (on the Welsh circuit) like it is in Arabs. Some people think that is the head while others prefer a less extreme head. In the hunter ring, however, the preferred head would have only a slight dish at the most. My favorite head is one that just tapers to the muzzle, with large eyes. My mares already have the heads I want so I didn't want to mess with that by choosing a stallion like Frodo.

NZ Appaloosas Wed, 03/18/2009 - 00:39

I'm a bit shy to do it as well, but if it's truly warrant, I'm sure I'll muster the courage.

As far as the fewspot thing, I agree with you. RF is of the opinion app genes are incredibly unpredictable (probably due to her belief that they are polygenous) and thus I think she may believe some horses can be born varnished enough so as to look fewspot. However based on what I have seen, the markings on that foal are *classic* of fewspot. The placement of what little color was left is NOT seen in varnish, but virtually always in fewspot... IMO.

The problem with Rabbit and fewspots (and snowcaps) is that she doesn't understand them, or Lp, as well as she thinks she does. It's the same thing with PATN--she thinks that PATN delineates a specific gene, rather than be a catch-phrase, like overo, to describe an unknown gene or gene set.

Fewspots are born, but they can have 'smudging', which Wayne's colt has, or they can be as limited in colour as the inside of the ears and little coronet tips. Looking at him, there is no way he was a varnish--the chest is not bony, but fleshy, and will lose colour, if roaning is going on.