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Fjords are....

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Monsterpony
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Re: Fjords are....

Hoofpick, I had a bag full of fjord hairs a few years ago that I was going to send you, but they disappeared sometime. I'll have to collect more when I am home and elsewhere this next week.

.

Daylene Alford
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Re: Fjords are....

Would you want hair from a dun + roan and a grullo + roan?

CheyAut
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Re: Fjords are....

For comparison: The old-type Haflinger is Chestnut + Pangare. They don't have dapples. The modern Haflinger with a lot of Arabian outcrossing carries Chestnut + Cream. They seldom have Pangare but they have dapples! ;)

Neither Arabs nor Haflingers have cream.

[color=#800040]CheyAut Ranch
http://www.CheyAutRanch.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/color]

Monsterpony
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Re: Fjords are....

I've never seen a haflinger with cream. They are all chestnut with flaxen.

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Dogrose
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Re: Fjords are....

I saw a picture in am magazine of the Queen (UK Queen that is) talking to someone at a horse show in Europe and it said the horse in the pic was a Haflinger but it was blue eyed cream, it was a few years ago now, maybe the pic was captioned wrong, I didn't know much about Haflingers at the time so didn't think anything of it.

[color=#804000][i]I bought me a horse twas called a grey mare
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Weren't a hair upon her that was not coal black[/i][/color]

Dilutes
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Re: Fjords are....

Hoofpick, if I could get some hair samples of a Haflinger, would you be interested in them?
I just have to find out if this lady on another forum (aussie one) still has one of her Haflingers.

The essential joy of being with horses is that it brings us in contact with the rare elements of grace, beauty, spirit, and fire. ~Sharon Ralls Lemon

rabbitsfizz
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Re: Fjords are....

I've never seen a Haflinger that has Arab blood.....

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TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Fjords are....

you can trace my haffy back to arabs and shagya arabs....go back to Zanzi Nissl(sire side, very top horse on the right)...then Nibbio...then Folie...

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/precious..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.haflingerhorses.com/history.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
good reading. I found thoroughbreds, trakehners, spanish purebreds, andalusians in my haffys pedigree waaaaaaaay and asked about it and was pointed to that article.

Dogrose
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Re: Fjords are....

If anyone wants hairs I can get Haffy (and bay dun from a native Spanish/warmblood cross if anyone thinks that might be interesting).

[color=#804000][i]I bought me a horse twas called a grey mare
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Weren't a hair upon her that was not coal black[/i][/color]

CheyAut
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Re: Fjords are....

I own a haffy, so no problems getting hair from me ;)

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http://www.CheyAutRanch.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/color]

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Fjords are....

and another haffy owner right here :D

tjuri
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Re: Fjords are....

You folks on this board are just great people! :love :flower :bounce You are digging it up right away!!!
:bounce
Thanks to Hoofpick for doing the samples under the microscope!!!! :flower

Red Hayflinger: You are right about the fact that there had been many different breeds crossed into the Haflinger for some time. Same happened to the Fjords - thanks to some stubborn breeders we have today some very pure bloodlines in the Fjord and in the Halinger. They are called the old type.
I found a pic of a Haflinger with dapples - and now the confusion is perfect: This haflinger is pedigreed as an OLD-TYPE (=Reinzucht-Haflinger), he is at the bottom of this page.
I could take it with a grain of salt, since DNA has not been required until recently... :booty

They have another stallion, he is pedigreed as the new-type (=Edelbluthaflinger), he is the first one on that page.

http://www.haflinger-luber.de/deckhengst..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IF YOU LOOK CLOSE, BOTH STALLIONS HAVE DAPPLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sigh, ((((faint))))) where do those dapples come from if not from CREAM????? :BH :?: :o :shock: :roll:

Rabbitsfizz: Haflingers are not chestnut + flaxen, they are supposed to have Pangare as additional trait (coming from the old landrace the first mares were taken from, they were close to drafts), hence why they are lighter in their color. Same goes with Fjords BTW (also some drafty ancestors in early breeding). The Pangare lightens the color, but does it explain the DAPPLES? :?: :roll: :?

tjuri
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Re: Fjords are....

Thanks RedHayflinger for posting that interesting history-link! :flower

In that article Falbe is translated as DUN. Unfortunately the Germans are very in-accurate in this area: The word Falbe is also used for BUCKSKIN horses... :hammer

There is roan mentioned in the article too, I wonder if they mean Pangare since it lightens the coat in certain areas significantly? :?: :?

accphotography
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Re: Fjords are....

Well Haflingers most certainly have BOTH pangare' and flaxen.

Neither of those horses look cream at all IMO. Dapples on a liver are fairly common IME. I have seen dapples on EVERY color, including non cream colors.

This horse is tested (twice) negative for cream, champagne, pearl, silver, dun and everything else you could think of... she not only has dapples, but REVERSE dapples. Go figure.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Lace/IMG_4479.jpg)

This horse definitely has no dilutes of any type:
IMAGE(http://www.lanesend.com/photos/Aragorn_7_25_07.jpg)

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Dogrose
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Re: Fjords are....

Nearly all the Haflingers I've seen in real life have some degree of dapples, whatever type they are- some are very fine others much stockier. The stables where I used to live bought a few from a dealer who imported them from Europe. I've got quite a few pics.
I was wondering- does pangare always give a flaxen mane and tail on a chestnut? If so would that be different from the usual non-pangare flaxen and chestnut? Or can you get a chestnut with pangare that doesn't have a flaxen mane and tail?

[color=#804000][i]I bought me a horse twas called a grey mare
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Weren't a hair upon her that was not coal black[/i][/color]

Monsterpony
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Re: Fjords are....

Dapples are quite often a nutrition rather than genetic thing. Healthy haircoats will often have dapples whatever color they may be.

.

accphotography
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Re: Fjords are....

Nearly all the Haflingers I've seen in real life have some degree of dapples, whatever type they are- some are very fine others much stockier. The stables where I used to live bought a few from a dealer who imported them from Europe. I've got quite a few pics.
I was wondering- does pangare always give a flaxen mane and tail on a chestnut? If so would that be different from the usual non-pangare flaxen and chestnut? Or can you get a chestnut with pangare that doesn't have a flaxen mane and tail?

From what I have seen, pangare' does not cause flaxen and vice versa. I have seen chestnuts with pangare' and no flaxen, and chestnuts with flaxen and no pangare'.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Monsterpony
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Re: Fjords are....

ACC- do you have any examples of pangare without flaxen? I have been digging for some photos for awhile and haven't found any examples.

.

accphotography
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Re: Fjords are....

Yup, somewhere. It will take some digging, but I know I've got some.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

accphotography
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Re: Fjords are....

I can't seem to find any photos of the two pangare' mares I've boarded with who were not flaxen... of course.

The trouble in just searching for one is that many people don't tag their photos with "pangare" or "mealy"... it's just chestnut or sorrel. We can't use Haflingers or Belgians because it's virtually impossible to find one without flaxen. That could say something, but it may not. I HAVE seen flaxen Belgians without pangare', so it's fairly safe to say that they are also carrying flaxen (albeit they may not all carry it) so that could go either way too.

We're going to have to look in breeds like Arabs, QHs and TBs. But it's going to be a "look at hundreds of chestnut horses before you find a single pangare' and that one may not even yield the result.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Krickette
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Re: Fjords are....

I've seen a belgian downtown who has a very strange mane and tail, but it's still flaxen. That carriage company is amazing, btw, their horses always look happy healthy and shiney!
maybe this link will work, i think it's the horse i'm thinking of
http://lrhorseandcarriage.googlepages.co..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

also this mare just looks odd: http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-189090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
this one looks pangere to me, but i can't really tell: http://www.equine.com/horses/ad_details...." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMAGE(http://goo.gl/U95pT)IMAGE(http://i51.tinypic.com/zmjl75.jpg)
IMAGE(http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/4;10101;473/st/20111119/e/Graduation%21/k/4ffb/event.png)

accphotography
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Re: Fjords are....

That last horse is definitely pangare', but I can't really tell if she's flaxen or not.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

tjuri
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Re: Fjords are....

Seems I did not explain myself clearly, I said: "...they are supposed to have Pangare as additional trait." Which means they have chestnut+flaxen+pangare... ;)

Thanks for the interesting reverse dapples and the liver-dapples, ACC! :flower

It's quite interesting that so many of you have seen dapples with other colors than silver, grey and cream! :o 8-)
I have seen some Haflingers without flaxen in the 60s+70s, they had been culls and they went to the meat-man. :BH

rabbitsfizz
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Re: Fjords are....

A lot of Haflingers still do go to the meat man, those are not registered.
In Belgians (in Belgium) the majority of foals bred go straight for meat, they are actually bred as meat.
5,000. bred 500 registered, those were the statistics a couple of years ago.
Go to the Palm Brewery sit...hang on I'll google it for you...
http://www.palmbreweries.com/en/index.ph..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
they are one of the prime producer of Sorrel Belgians, as they have that colour specifically because their beer is the same colour.
Some of those do not have Pangaré, the team i saw working did not, they were sorrel without Pangaré.
Completely different from the American type, too, the same with the Haflingers.
I do not like the long legged, herring gutted, long backed type, they are a dual purpose animals, like the Welsh Cob and the Fjord, they should be heavy compact bodied and thick necked.
UGH...progress???
And of coursethey have Panare....I can be wrong (gasp!!) but please do not attempt to teach your Grandmother to suck eggs...I'm notwrong in this case!!!
Those very dark animals with dapples and white manes and tails??
Red + Sooty + Flaxen + Pangaré + Sabino.
Case solved!!!
Whoopee, got my accent back BTW!!! :bounce

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Dilutes
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Re: Fjords are....

Oops delete I double posted.

The essential joy of being with horses is that it brings us in contact with the rare elements of grace, beauty, spirit, and fire. ~Sharon Ralls Lemon

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Fjords are....

Completely different from the American type, too, the same with the Haflingers.
I do not like the long legged, herring gutted, long backed type, they are a dual purpose animals, like the Welsh Cob and the Fjord, they should be heavy compact bodied and thick necked.
UGH...progress???

I've seen some real trainwrecks on the leggy/tall "new" haflingers. Most of them pushing 15hh. I like my short, rotund, stocky little girl better :) People around here are always asking me if I'm sure she is a purebred haflinger("she's too short!"..."she's too dark colored!" *faceplant*)...except for the amish...they all just WANT her...lol
IMAGE(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/Ponybeads/P1100432.png)

that being said...she gets dapples...but they don't show up in photos well at all and are very very faint. You have to be standing in just the right light to see them. She also doesn't have a lot of panagre...very hard to see any of it in the summer, but easier to see it in the winter.
Summer
IMAGE(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k8/Ponybeads/P1100264.jpg)

Winter
IMAGE(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/stauffie/a3628cf0.jpg)

Dilutes
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Re: Fjords are....

I'm glad there are some haffy owners here. I thought after I posted about sending Hoofpick some Haffy hairs, too bad if the owner said nope :oops:
Your Haffy is gorgeous TheRedHayflinger. I especially love her face :love

I have a photo somewhere where my bay anglo mare dappled out on her rump. I think it was the ricebran diet I put her on at the time as well as the molasses which I put on her meadow hay for a couple of weeks so she'd eat it.

The essential joy of being with horses is that it brings us in contact with the rare elements of grace, beauty, spirit, and fire. ~Sharon Ralls Lemon

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Fjords are....

her face is her best asset I think....lol... Big doe eyes, little bit of a dish to it...all sweet and cute--so she can lure you into a false sense of security and steal your cookies!

tjuri
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Re: Fjords are....

Rabbitsfizz: Thanks for the link, nice old pics! Agreed on the compact type for these breeds. :bounce

TheRedHayflinger: Cute mare of the old type! :)

Dilutes: I would love to see the pic of the bay with dapples! :) Interesting you find a connection with a special diet, that would be worth some more thoughts! 8-)

here are some nice Haflingers for you, you will find different types:
http://slawik.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_i..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some Fjords for the Fjord-lovers on this board - just for the balance... ;) :D
http://slawik.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_i..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Fjords are....

thanks...she was my freebie mare :D The guy even transferred her papers over to me as well. Guess he didn't have time for an 8 year old untouched mare...lol. His loss...easiest horse I ever trained to saddle and she is learning about driving now as I have time.

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