A couple more questions for you Welsh people...

D'oh! Sorry, I totally spaced on asking the group. I've posted the questions and I'll post any responses here.
Turns out I'll not be able to make it to the meeting. I wish they would take things like Valentines Day into account when planning these things! I'll be in Reno with the family.
Frodo won CA and SW Region and I won't be there to get his award! Darn!

Somehow the question got turned into a height discussion... LOL. It went kinda off base

But did find out some info to help:

Over height Bs are registered but not shown once they go over height. They are still used for breeding, just not shown. Bs especially like to be right up at the height limits. Sometimes if a spectacular animal goes over height and the owner wants to show at the breed shows, they'll register them as half-Welsh.

There seems to be a concensus that taller ponies lose type and there are two "factions" to this. One side doesn't care as they look at the usability of the pony, not the breed standard. The other side looks at the type and doesn't care about the usability.
Some seem to think "type" is all in the head and ears. These are usually the people that like the taller ponies! :rofl
One comment that was made was someone that said they'd love to have a 13 hand Section A.
A response to that comment was "Me too. And then we'd have a wonderful Section C" LOL.

They also brought to light the taller pony syndrome we have in the US. Seems the initial imports were mostly over height ponies in the UK. Breeders in the UK wouldn't use over height ponies so they were sold to us silly americans to import. :rofl

If anything else useful pops up, I'll continue to post!
Good luck, I really wish I could be there!

Section A is the Welsh Mountain Pony and Section B is the Welsh Pony. Section A's are hardy, spirited and pony-like and do not exceed 12 h.h. (121.9 cms). Section B's are similar, but larger — up to 13.2 h.h. (137.2 cms) — and with more riding pony qualities.

Section A: The Welsh Mountain Pony
Bred in the mountains and wild regions of Wales for many generations, their acknowledged beauty does not mean they are merely a 'pretty toy' — centuries of 'survival of the fittest' has ensured the sound constitution, iron hard limbs and great intelligence which combined with the legendary Welsh temperament, makes the ideal child's pony of today. They can be seen ridden and driven all over the world — equally at home in the cold of Canada and Sweden or the heat of Africa and Australia.

The head of the Mountain Pony should be small, with neat pointed ears, big bold eyes and a wide forehead. The jaw should be clean cut, tapering to a small muzzle; the silhouette may be concave or 'dished' but never convex or too straight. The neck should be of good length and well carried with shoulders sloping back to a clearly defined wither. The limbs must be set square with good flat bone and round dense hooves. The tail set high and gaily carried.

Action must be quick, free and straight from the shoulder, knees and hocks well flexed with straight and powerful leverage well under the body.

[b]The height should not exceed 12 h.h.[/b] (121.9 cms).

Detailed Description
General Character
Hardy, spirited and pony-like

Colour
Any colour, except piebald and skewbald

Head
Small, clean-cut, well set on and tapering to the muzzle

Eyes
Bold

Ears
Well-placed, small and pointed, well up on the head, proportionately close

Nostrils
Prominent and open

Jaws and Throat
Clean and finely-cut, with ample room at the angle of the jaw

Neck
Lengthy, well-carried and moderately lean in the case of mares, but inclined to be cresty in the case of mature stallions

Shoulders
Long and sloping well back. Withers moderately fine, but not "knifey". The humerus upright so that the foreleg is not set in under the body

Forelegs
Set square and true, and not tied in at the elbows. Long, strong forearm, well developed knee, short flat bone below knee, pasterns of proportionate slope and length, feet well-shaped and round, hoofs dense.

Back and Loins
Muscular, strong and well coupled

Girth
Deep

Ribs
Well sprung

Hind Quarters
Hocks to be large, flat and clean with points prominent, to turn neither inwards nor outwards. The hind legs not to be too bent. The hock not to be set behind a line from the point of the quarter to the fetlock joint. Pasterns of proportionate slope and length. Feet well-shaped, hoofs dense.

Action
Action must be quick, free and straight from the shoulder, knees and hocks well flexed with straight and powerful leverage well under the body.

Section B: The Welsh Pony
The general description of the Welsh Mountain Pony can be applied to the Welsh Pony, with greater emphasis being placed on riding pony qualities whilst retaining the true Welsh quality with substance.

For generations these ponies were the hill farmers' main means of transport, herding sheep and wild ponies over rough and mountainous country. They had to be hardy, balanced and fast to survive, which ensured that only the best were bred from. These qualities, combined with a natural jumping ability, and the temperament of their Welsh Mountain Pony forebears make the Welsh Pony second to none in whatever field his young rider may choose. Today they hold their own among our top class riding ponies both in performance competitions and in the show ring.

[b]The height should not exceed 13.2 h.h.[/b] (137.2 cms).

Detailed Description
The general description of ponies in Section A of the Stud Book is applicable to those in Section B, but more particularly the Section B pony shall be described as a riding pony, with quality, riding action, adequate bone and substance, hardiness and constitution and with pony character.

WOW....just Wow, you allow sec B up to !4.2ins??That is crazy, just crazy.

Section C is the Welsh Pony of Cob Type and Section D is the Welsh Cob. The main difference is size: [b]Section C's do not exceed 13.2 h.h.[/b] (137.2 cms) while Section D's are larger.

Section C: The Welsh Pony of Cob Type
The Welsh Pony of Cob Type, Section C, is the stronger counterpart of the Welsh Pony, but with Cob blood.

Their true worth as a dual purpose animal has been fully realised in recent years, and their numbers have increased accordingly.

Active, surefooted and hardy, they are ideal for so many purposes both for adults and children.

Like all the Welsh Breeds they are natural jumpers and they also excel in harness — there are in fact few things that they cannot be used for.

The height should not exceed 13.2 h.h. (137.2 cms).

Section D: The Welsh Cob
Aptly described as "the best ride and drive animal in the World", the Welsh Cob has been evolved throughout many centuries for his courage, tractability and powers of endurance.

The general character is the embodiment of strength, hardiness and agility. the head shows great quality with Pony character: bold prominent eyes, a broad forehead and neat, well set ears. The body must be deep, on strong limbs with good "hard wearing" joints and an abundance of flat bone. Action must be straight, free and forceful, the knees should be bent and then the whole foreleg extended from the shoulders as far as possible in all paces, with the hocks well flexed, producing powerful leverage.

The Welsh Cob is a good hunter and a most competent performer in all competitive sports. In recent years they have had great success in the international driving world. Their abilities in all spheres are now fully recognised throughout the world.

The height should exceed 13.2 h.h. (137 cms): [b]no upper limit.[/b]* the rot sets in when they cross them with TBs and do not mention it....*
Detailed Description of Sections C and D
General Character
Strong, hardy and active, with pony character and as much substance as possible

Colour
Any colour, except piebald and skewbald

Head
Full of quality and pony character. A coarse head and Roman nose are most objectionable

Eyes
Bold, prominent and set widely apart

Ears
Neat and well set

Neck
Lengthy and well carried. Moderately lean in the case of mares, but inclined to be cresty in the case of mature stallions

Shoulders
Strong but well laid back

Forelegs
Set square and not tied in at the elbows. Long, strong forearms. Knees well developed with an abundance of bone below them. Pasterns of proportionate slope and length. Feet well-shaped. Hoofs dense. When in the rough, a moderate quantity of silky feather is not objected to but coarse, wiry hair is a definite objection.

Middlepiece
Back and loins, muscular, strong and well-coupled. Deep through the heart and well-ribbed up.

Hind Quarters
Lengthy and strong. Ragged or drooping quarters are objectionable. Tail well-set on.

Hind Legs
Second thighs, strong and muscular. Hocks, large, flat and clean, with points prominent, turning neither inward nor outwards. The hind legs must not be too bent and the hock not set behind a line falling from the point of the quarter to the fetlock joint. Pasterns of proportionate slope and length. Feet well-shaped. Hoofs dense.

Action
Free, true and forcible. The knee should be bent and the whole foreleg should be extended straight from the shoulder and as far forward as possible in the trot. Hocks flexed under the body with straight and powerful leverage
.

Do you want pictures???

No thank you, Rabbit...I have a number of pictures of all sections from both the UK and the US. So the major difference is in the height of A's and B's...here, A's can be up to 12.2 hands and B's to 14.2 hands. C's and D's are the same.

I have read that many of the ponies that were first imported here from the UK were those that were pushing the upper limits of height (or sometimes over it) in the UK, and those became much of the early breeding stock here...causing the US to increase height limits for some of the sections, I'm sure. But the "desired" bloodlines appear to mostly be the same...the horses that are winning the national championship over here have the same "big" horses in their pedigrees as those winning at the Royal Welsh, so there's a lot of overlap.

In your opinion, other than height, what are the differences in type that you see between the US and UK ponies? I speak in terms of bone, structure, refinement, all those subtle things that breeders will use to choose their breeding stock. It seems (to me) as though our Section B's are more heavily muscled, a bit "rounder" if that makes sense. In contrast, it seems like our section C's are more refined...less heavy in the neck and girth and more like the B's. Those are the only things I've picked out, but obviously I'm not an expert on the Welsh so I'd appreciate another, more experienced viewpoint.

I actually prefer the Sec Bs as you describe, not as we too often get over here.
The British Riding Pony has been bred mostly form Sec Bs (and small TBs) and has greatly influenced the Sec B to it's detriment, I feel.
I noticed when I was trawling the studs that the trend seems to be swinging, in the stallions at least, back towards the heavier "working" pony.
I deplore the loss of "head" that this entails, I have NO idea why a heavier pony cannot have a pretty head (just look at some Highlands!!) but there you go.
For me, Solway Master Bronze and Twyford Grenadier (sod that he was) shall always be the epitome of Welsh Section B, but you can already see in them the loss of bone that this entailed.
I assume that the loss of bone continues through the larger ponies??
I have to say that I should not have liked to have dealt with a 14.2hh Twyford Grenadier....although, had he been mine , the answer would have been simple!!
If you read the description of the Sec B you will see that it was only ever intended to be a bigger, slightly lighter. sec A.
Instead of allowing the Bs to go to 14.2hh another section should have been created, so ponies from this section could go from 13.2hh to 14.2hh...I sometimes wish that the WP&CS would do that, but we have a very active market for overheight Bs, breeding Show Ponies or just being riding ponies, so maybe they do not see the need?
The other problem is that an awful lot of Bs are now around 12.00hh as they are used a lot as Lead Rein ponies (mine was 11.2hh ) so I guess it is not so hard to keep the height down.
America really needs to start a Show Pony society, with a mind to breeding your own, National, Show Pony....the idea of doing this using Shetlands and Hackneys is IMO, farcical, but some nice Welsh X TBs with a side order of AmShet would go down very nicely!!

From what i have seen the D's as they are getting taller are loosing both type and bone. I have seen some 15.3hh monster D's that are practicaly TB's with a bit of feather. Not too keen on that, though tbf they are mostly in riding schools not show rings or stud farms so they could well be the 'culls' from the breeding/showing programmes.

We have George Bowman to thank for that. He had a team of four TB X Welsh Cobs, Chestnut they were and very flashy.
Everyone thought they were great and trotted off to breed themselves some!!
Unfortunately, not being quite as honest as George, they registered them as Welsh Cobs, which is still very easy to do.
Et voila, a good breed potentially ruined.