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Oz foal.

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Here is my February filly. A bit late for us here in OZ, but she is very cute anyway. Dad is homozygous black & mum is bay silver. She was born looking dark bay, but is shedding out jet black. Have never had a black foal born looking bay, so guessing she is probably seal. [attachment=1]cindy.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=0]cindy 2.jpg[/attachment]

accphotography Fri, 03/27/2009 - 13:41

She's GORGEOUS! I agree about seal. Mom must be homozygous agouti.

thorwood Fri, 03/27/2009 - 18:45

Thanks, she really is a cutie, will try & get some photos today, so you can see what colour she is shedding out.

ACC, her dam is out of a black silver & by a chestnut.
I guess she could be homozygous agouti.
Are seals supposed to be homozygous for agouti???
But not all homozygous agoutis are seal????

Here is mum a week or so before she was born, & another with her just born.

[attachment=1]candy 3.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=0]candy22.jpg[/attachment]

PamelaTX Fri, 03/27/2009 - 20:29

[color=#8000BF][b]CONGRATS!!!!!!!![/b][/color] :toast

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 05:02

Her paddock name is Cindy (courtesy of my daughter choosing the name).
Her registered name will be Cinnamon.

Dakota, was having a really good look at her today & she
sure looks black.
Will have to try for those pics tomorrow.
Can a horse that is born looking bay actually be black???

dakotakdq Sat, 03/28/2009 - 05:16

mine was born looking brown, went black, then brown and now black! :)
A test is easiest way to tell 4 sure. :P

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 05:19

Yes, you are right a test would tell me for sure.
But the only things she can be are black or seal & I am not really fussed.
Well, she could also be silver, but I can't see any evidence of that at all.

Songcatcher Sat, 03/28/2009 - 07:07

[quote="thorwood"]Can a horse that is born looking bay actually be black???[/quote]
I wouldn't call this one Bay looking, but certainly not Black. He was born a couple of years ago out of a Sorrel Pinto mare and a Black stallion.

[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/…]
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/…]

After shedding his foal coat, he looked like this:
[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/…]

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 07:18

Just amazing how the foal colour can be so different to the colour they shed to.
Songcatcher, in those pics, that baby looks like a buckskin to me & shed out looks
a bit like smoky black. But then black & brown can sometimes both look like smoky black.
Do you know what colour he actually is???

My black foals have always been this colour.

[attachment=1]alice2 jan 9.jpg[/attachment]

This is a black foal out of two non fading blacks, one heterozygous & one homozygous.

Songcatcher Sat, 03/28/2009 - 07:28

I never tested him, and sold him as a short yearling. He was a glossy Black by that time. There is a chance he could be a Smokey Black as his sire has a foal registered as a Palomino out of a Sorrel mare. His sire is also a very glossy Black. Almost a blue hue.

accphotography Sat, 03/28/2009 - 14:42

[quote="thorwood"]ACC, her dam is out of a black silver & by a chestnut.
I guess she could be homozygous agouti.
Are seals supposed to be homozygous for agouti???
But not all homozygous agoutis are seal????
[/quote]

No seals are not necessarily homozygous for agouti. However it is believed that seal is recessive to normal bay. So if your mare looks like a normal bay, but throws a seal to a black, she's likely homozygous agouti (carrying both seal and normal). However, since your mare is carrying a dilution, it's hard to say for sure what type of bay she is visually. In the first photo of her (with the foal) I though for sure she was normal bay, but these other two photos have me guessing. Based on her dam supposedly being black, it's probably more likely she's just a seal herself as opposed to being both. I'd love to see a test.

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 18:43

I don't know about the theory of seal being recessive to normal bay, it doesn't seem to hold true. I remember a discussion about it on the old
forum. I have a normal red bay mare from two seal parents.

Mum's dam is a dark chocolate colour, similar to my minimal silver colt (in my avatar pic) & was actually registered as liver chestnut.
LOL, so far she has produced 4 bay silver fillies & one non silver bay, all by the same chestnut stallion.
She is quite clearly NOT bay.
I have pics somewhere of the marbled legs & silver mane & tail of my mare when she was younger. She has the
striped feet as well.

Sara Sat, 03/28/2009 - 18:47

Thorwood, I remember that you were the one who had a horse who blew the seal theory.

thorwood Sat, 03/28/2009 - 18:49

LOL, I wasn't trying to!!! Just the way it is.
From memory though, there were other people who either had or knew of red bays
from seal parents.

Monsterpony Sat, 03/28/2009 - 19:03

I thought the research being done had found that the seal gene had been located near to agouti and wasn't actually another allele of the gene.

Daylene Alford Sat, 03/28/2009 - 19:57

LoL here we go again...I think maybe we should start a new thread for seal and maybe sticky it to the top of the genetics forum?

accphotography Sun, 03/29/2009 - 01:03

Actually, the last I heard it IS IN agouti. But of course there's no "proof" yet, only a man's word.

I would LOVE to see any normal bays produced from two seals (or a seal and a black). That's something I've been trying to find a long time, as well as wild bay from normal bays or normal and black.

thorwood Sun, 03/29/2009 - 01:16

I will start a new topic for you. This one is getting off topic.
Look in Equine Colour genetics in a few moments.

Fledgesflight Fri, 04/03/2009 - 07:14

I missed this thread :oops: She's beautiful- Congrats! :flower :flower