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Appy expert help please

a friend has asked me to put her mare and foal on here , the foal pic is not great but see what you can do with it (not the foal at foot )the sire is a black leopard spot , the mare has very speckled skin - udders eyes vulva , the horse is owned by an experienced spotty breeder and she says its not the normal appy spotting , !!

rabbitsfizz Fri, 05/27/2011 - 08:15

What are you actually asking??
The mare looks like she started out an extended blanket, then varnished......

Daylene Alford Fri, 05/27/2011 - 15:36

Oh that is a really tough call. The mare looks dark chestnut in that photo but we've all seen photos of appy messing with base colors so she may not be. The foal may be black but as you said it's not a great photo.

supaspot60 Sat, 05/28/2011 - 05:03

In reply to by Daylene Alford

I didnt mention champagne because I didn want to plant a wrong seed in peoples minds but the owner also thought the foal could be classic champagne

she said of the mare ......
her mums spots are a beautiful colour...have a gold sheen to them, Ive not seen anything quite like it

supaspot60 Sat, 05/28/2011 - 05:06

sorry ...she wants to know what colour they are

hee hee RF ..that is the name of the forum I posted in lol

Threnody Sun, 05/29/2011 - 17:52

Mother is could be champagne and passed it onto the foal, if it's eyes are lighter. It would explain why the mare's spots are so small if she has a dilution. I agree with [b]rabitsfizz[/b] on the blanket that varnished.

There is a slight (very slight)chance she could be a supressed PATN 1, since they can resemble that pattern, (Appy Project has some examples in their gallery, but you have to be a member to see them) The only real way to prove she is a suppressed PANT1 is if she produces a full leopard or fewspot foal from a varnish mate.

supaspot60 Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:41

In reply to by Daylene Alford

[quote=Threnody] The only real way to prove she is a suppressed PANT1 is if she produces a full leopard or fewspot foal from a varnish mate.[/quote]

that would never happen , the mare belongs to mandy from hallmarked stud and she has several well marked stallions

Threnody Tue, 05/31/2011 - 20:38

The more I'm looking at her the more I'm thinking suppressed PANT1 >.< :P I went back to look at the gallery of suppressed leopard complex and she looks almost identical to a few horses they have there. The small spots, the spots mainly on the rump and face with the shoulders roaned out. Base color shift the "LP dilute" could explain the lighter colors quite easily in both, and the lighter golden tones in the mare's dam. That is if they test negative for CH.

critterkeeper Tue, 06/21/2011 - 19:11

:-? So that rules that theory out...next theory?

Threnody Wed, 06/22/2011 - 01:26

Maybe LP really depigmented the visible skin? It's not uber common, but it does happen. Is there a possibility of cream that could have caused lighter than normal baby blues in the foal?

LesliKathman Thu, 06/23/2011 - 18:25

Here is my own suppressed leopard with a rather pronounced color shift.

[img]http://www.horsecolor.info/Sprinkles.jp…]

See how pale her lower legs are? Yet she is Ee/aa. In person the lightest areas have a sheen to them, though the rest of her coat is pretty dull in tone.

I also did a blog post back when I had her tested, all with comparison photos of the legs of other colors. You can see those [url=http://equinetapestry.com/2011/06/07/bl…].

I need to get more recent pictures of her. She has taken a long time to develop spotting on her face and forehand, but they are there now.

Threnody Thu, 06/23/2011 - 22:26

A phenotype like Lesli's horse is what made me think the mare is a suppressed leopard. Thanks for sharing!

LesliKathman Fri, 06/24/2011 - 04:23

In reply to by Daylene Alford

This post has a set of graphics that show how a normal leopard pattern ("nose to toes") gets shrunk down with whatever causes the suppression.

[url=http://equinetapestry.com/2011/05/15/su… Leopards[/url]

Although the name makes it sound like it would make horses less like appaloosas, in fact the suppression of the pattern tends to make them appear louder because the spotting is so dense. Each individual spot is smaller, but because the spacing is reduced the effect is that there is more there, not less.

supaspot60 Fri, 06/24/2011 - 12:33

wow love that mare , shes gorgeous ! I must admit Ive never even heard of supressed leopards but what you describe could definately describe mandys mare
I asked mandy about the cream gene and this is what she said
"her eyes are now changing, they are no longer bue, they are going dark.
Her mane is coming through white, and she has a white undercoat too.
She tested negative for Champagne, and to my knowledge neither parent carries cream, but I havent tested."