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Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

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CMhorses
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Look at this, "Lilac Hill" and "Slip Catch" together in the same frame, and around second 5, if you pause it you can see both of these mares have nearly identical head markings. This one called "Lavender Fields" also shares the same star marking. Also out of these 3 horses, none of them have any leg white, but all have a star.
I guess the question is still, who is the real Slip Catch, and who is that foal/neglected horse? As well as who are these three horses with stars?

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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/3vua-4b.jpg)

Is this mare 'Lilac Hill' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2stzmVCQZg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bonjovifan
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

This video of "Lavender Fields" does match the photo posted here of her http://www.pedigreequery.com/lavender+fi..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/user/StrathislaHo..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bonjovifan
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/Slip-Catch.jpg)

Does this not look like this filly list here as "Odd Colours"?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/se..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bonjovifan
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?
IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/3vua-4b.jpg)

Is this mare 'Lilac Hill' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2stzmVCQZg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is def Lilac Hill http://www.studbook.org.au/horseidcertif..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Danni
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Does this not look like this filly list here as "Odd Colours"?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/se..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree, they both look like the same foal to me

Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Slip Catch and Lilac Hill look near identical, but the videos shown on youtube do show that they are separate horses, they look more identical than most clones. Since Lilac Hill has been gene tested tracing back to Catch A Bird, through Slip Catch, the horses in question are being represented as the correct animals as relatives of Catch A Bird.

I still do not know who the starved horse is. Based off color it is a Catch A Bird relative, but who, we don't know and they may not have been registered.

The two pics of the foal ARE the same animal (markings are the same), and are both likely Odd Colours since Slip Catch has been identified as being the older mare with only a star. The other name is the only thing we can go off of, so with the process of elimination it is most likely Odd Colours.

As of now the only mystery is who the starved horse is. All others have been accounted for from the first post.

TO RECAP

IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/slipcatch.png)
Slip Catch

IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/3vua-4b.jpg)
Stated to be Slip Catch, but the corn marks look more like Lilac Hill's

IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/lilachill.png)
Lilac Hill

IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/lilachillslipcatch.png)
Lilac Hill and Slip Catch (showing that they are separate individuals)

IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/Slip-Catch.jpg)
Very likely Odd Colours

IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/7horse1.jpg)
Still unknown

accphotography
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Can anyone see the face markings on the rescue horse? I can't. I'm really wondering if the front right marking on the foal just doesn't go all the way around (I've certainly seen that before)... otherwise that foal could match the rescue horse.

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Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

This is the best pic of the rescue's face.
IMAGE(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/talkingmongo0se/rr-horse-10.jpg)

It's still a possibility that the rescue could be Odd Colours. I do see how the front could be a half marking.
No way to be 100% but I desperately hope that it may be so that the poor thing has an identity.

Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Found another pic of the horse, and Murphy's law is of course preventing view of the legs.

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accphotography
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

I think it is... I think that's the foal.

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Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Looking at the back legs markings again they are the right height. And the face marking does extend down to the right nostril on the foal and horse. I'm going to agree with you, it's likely Odd Colours.

accphotography
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

I was thinking those things as well.

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george
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

The starved horses you are trying to ID under ASB TB mare names, are Australian Stock Horses, with many years difference in age. That's why the markings won't match.

The horses on the video are Lilac Hill & Lavender Fields & an ASB daughter of one of these mares. They reside in WA where Catch A Bird started his career at stud.

Slip Catch is not amongst them. She was bred in Victoria & last seen around Geelong.

Also, Catch a Bird was not amongst the unfortunate horses. He had been given away a few years earlier, due to infertility.

The only registered TB's, at the time the RSPCA stepped in, were 2 young stallions. Both solid coloured Chestnuts. Many of the horses in the worst condition, as you have pictured, were euthanised by the RSPCA.

roanie
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

I hope I can put the record straight.....Slip catch was bred in 1993 by MJ Young. She still resides in WA to my knoweldge. She was never lived in Vic near Geelong nor was she ever owned by Julie Tilbrook. Lavender Fields and Lilac Hill are both her progeny. She had four other foals.

The picture in the rescue Photo in 1997 is not slip catch. The horse in the pic was then a rising 3 year old filly by Catch A Bird. She inherited many of the traits that Julie Tilbrook was attempting to breed.....Bay roan, curls on her hocks and catch a bird type brindling on her back and loins (who said these traits could not be genetically passed on?)

I am continually amused by the lack of accuracy of claims and the absolute BS that is reported about this unfortunate saga.

Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

This thread was made to try and find out more so thank you for the extra information. We have found the foal in the picture can't be Slip Catch as it was mistaken identity perpetuated by the wrong name put with the wrong photo.
Please read the rest of the thread.

The only disagreement I have is that none of CABs foals are brindle since they are classic roan. CAB had a random KIT mutation of classic roan that he passed on to his foals. The brindling of his pattern was not inheritable, but the roan mutation was.

roanie
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Is it possible for a 'classic roan type' that you suggest to have brindle white type streaking as CAD had?

JNFerrigno
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

It could be rabicano. But as far as I know, no photos have turned up of any CAB offspring having his markings.

Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

I'm fairly certain that the offspring have rabicano as well. All seem to have dramatic coon tails and more concentration around the flanks. Since both roan and rabicano are linked on the KIT gene it would be rare for one to be inherited without the other. JNFerrigno is right in that he has never sired offspring with his brindle. His appearance was caused by his pattern being missmarked.

If Tilbrook was looking for CAB having curls on his legs it sounds like she was looking for a horse with "brindle hair texture" as well. The horse families with this hair texturing are more than likely some form of curly in my opinion.

Monsterpony
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

When was rabicano linked to KIT?

.

roanie
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

It's a pretty big assumption to make that just because no pictures have been sighted, no offspring of CAB have been bred with his brindle? Fetlock curls were a common trait of CAB offspring.

JNFerrigno
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

If there where CAB offspring with his pattern, it would be all abuzz in the genetic community and there would have been photos. And that would mean the breeding program was a success, and I'm pretty sure if it was a success the horses would not have ended up the way they did.

I don't understand how you link fetlock curls to CAB when all horses are capable of having hair on their fetlocks regardless of breed. Just as easily horses can loose their fetlock hair due to domestication and other factors. If your fetlock hair isn't long enough, or of a different texture, It's going to curl. In the current daughters of CAB that I've fond on the net, I do not see evidence to suggest that is anything other then normal fetlock hair.

Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

To clarify the rabicano statement I've read in some places that it is likely a KIT mutation. Others don't agree and think it is elsewhere. I personally beleive it is likely on KIT but there is no official research either way.

I completely agree with JNFerrigno. If CAB had an inheritable form of his brindled pattern there would be documented cases of it. Researchers and horse breeders alike would be estatic about an inheritable form of dramatic white brindle. So far no forms of white brindle have shown to he inheritable and many appear to be missmarks that are caused during development in the womb and not by genetics.

As for the curls on the fetlocks, hair texture and hair color are controlled by separate genes and have shown no influence over each others inheritance in an individual. Curled fetlock hair is not uncommon in horses of any color. Even environmental things such as the lower legs getting wet can cause a curled appearance.

roanie
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

1. So the rabicano link to KIT is your own opinion, with no offical supporting evidence.

2. Because you are not aware of any documented cases of brindle offspring you subsequently discount the possibility of its existence. Why would any case be necessarily documented? some people just dont give a rats!

3. Your conclusions surrounding fetlock curls on CAB offspring are based on the CAB progeny pics that you have seen.....How many is that three maybe four pictures. (he sired approx 70 TB + 3 ASH plus many other unreg horses)

Whilst I am sure there is much to know about the theoretical aspects of KIT/ genetic profiles/ color DNA, I like to keep an open mind on possibilities and where possible keep to the known facts rather than broad based assumptions. I trust you don't mind having your assumptions challenged.

I am aware of a bay roan filly by CAB with quite distinct white brindling on back and loins. May even have some pics somewhere....yep she also has the curling effect as well.

Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

I have absolutely no problem with having my opinions challeneged. The CAB foals are part of the reason why I beleive rabicano is on KIT since all of the foals were either plain or roan with heavily marked coon tails. No roan without coon tails or obvious rabicano only foals. This would lend to them being linked and rarely inherited independently. No one knows everything about horse color, and I certainly don't claim to.

If you have the picture of the foal please post it. This is a forum of many knowledgeable people on horse genetics and we are sharing our knowledge with you.

The curling however is irrelevant to a horse's color as any breed of any color has the potential to have curls on their fetlocks. This is similar to claiming people with curly hair have blue eyes. That is erroneous since people with brown eyes can also have curly hair since hair texture and eye color are genetically independent.

accphotography
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

I agree that it is very likely rabicano is on KIT.

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roanie
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

I will chase up filly pics, she is now 6 year old. Red roan with white streaking thorugh loin. She is the horse in the pics at Tildara. sometimes referred to the rescue horse.

Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

I really look forward to those pictures. ^_^ I would love to see photos of her in better condition.

Katie
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Bumping up an old thread... I am a lurker mostly :) But I follow every thread with fascination. I was just flipping through a classified page the other day, as you do when you are horseless :( and I came across an ad for a mare by Catch A Bird. I instantly thought of this forum, and kept meaning to come link it. But now I can't find the ad *blush* So there is a mare by CAB floating around. The ad didn't have pics, but described her as a 'rare roan thoroughbred'.

Threnody
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Re: Ummm... Thats not Slip Catch?

Very neat. If you can find the link again send it over. ^_^

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