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color Pebbles and Nala ?

Hi, I would like to know what you think about the colors off my two filly's ? Mom looks to be black, but has brown face markings, brown in main and tail and body, this is always and not only in summer. Dad looks chestnut with flaxen main/tail. Wen we clip them, mom is light brown/grey and dad light cream, no reddish at all. The first filly was borne in 2007 and the second a few days ago. Both have very light grey/blue eyes. Nala (last foal) has also a very light furcolor in her inner ears. Please forgive me my English, but I'm from the Netherlands. My questions: is Pebbles a Palomino and is Nala a Smokey Black? Pictures of Pebbles: http://anita.sloot.googlepages.com/pebbles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Pictures of Nala: http://anita.sloot.googlepages.com/nala" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Pictures of mom and dad: http://anita.sloot.googlepages.com/home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BamBam Wed, 04/08/2009 - 09:03

[quote="Jenks"]You don't think BamBam is a Palomino?

Nala looks like a smokey black and Pebbles looks like a Palomino.[/quote]

Thanks for your reaction! We really don't know wich off the parents is the one with cream. BamBam looks chestnut to me but maybe our other mare who can get a foal anytime now, will give us an answer.

Andrea Wed, 04/08/2009 - 11:24

The first filly looked chestnut with pangere, but that last picture looks paly. Could be lightening in winter? Love to see her when she sheds.
Daddy looks flaxen chestnut to me so if there is creme, I would say it's coming from mom.
Cute little hobbits! :love

rabbitsfizz Wed, 04/08/2009 - 11:25

I don't actually think there is Cream there, I think your stallion is Red Dun (+Flaxen), and the foal definitley is either Red Dun or Red + Pangare (+ Flaxen in both cases).
I think the black foal is just that, black....do you have any reason to suspect Cream??
Here, since you are new (WELCOME, BTW!!! :newbie ) is a picture of Rabbit, who is Red Dun + Flaxen + (I think) Pangare!!
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]

BamBam Wed, 04/08/2009 - 11:42

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]do you have any reason to suspect Cream??
Here, since you are new (WELCOME, BTW!!! :newbie ) is a picture of Rabbit, who is Red Dun + Flaxen + (I think) Pangare!!
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]

Thanks for welcoming :)
I suspect cream because of the color of the eyes. Both filly's have very light grey/blue eyes. Pebbles eyes were still light when she leaved us at the age aff 5 months. And because the way Pebbles shedded, those grey legs I have never seen that on an chestnut foal. Al chestnut foals I have seen had lighter babyfur and then went mostly darker after shedding or stayed almost the same color. Pebbles just the otherway round so to speek. She shedded out much lighter. I added some more pictures of mom and dad.

accphotography Wed, 04/08/2009 - 12:09

BamBam appears to be flaxen chestnut + pangare'. I don't see dun personally.

Sofie appears to be black something, and I'm going to say smokey black.

Nala appears black or smokey black (given the eye color probably the latter).

Pebbles... wow. Honestly I don't know. I think palomino is a good possibility. I also think silver bay is very possible. Either one + pangare'.

BamBam Wed, 04/08/2009 - 12:31

Nice all these reactions :)

Pebbles had when she was just born a black (third) eyelid (?), make up so to say. Maybe you guys can something with this?

rabbitsfizz Wed, 04/08/2009 - 14:06

These are Shetlands??
So...no Silver.
I just threw the possibility of Red Dun into the mix because, IME, Shetlands are rarely "just Chestnut" and are usually a very bright ginger colour...of course we have to allow for colour appearing different on different monitors, so Dun might not be there.
On the other hand, Dun would explain the lighter eyes, and the Blacks could easily have greyish eyes and have no Cream.
I do not see Cream.

OK, had yet another look.....that darker lower leg is fairly typical of Rabbit's get, especially the Red Dun ones.
I have seen RD described often in Shetlands as "cream dun" and a lot of people do in fact think it is Palomino or Dunalino and people are [i]still[/i] trying to persuade me Rabbit has Cream!!!
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]
another picture of the old man...see what I mean??
Would you, just from this picture, say he was Dun??

BamBam Wed, 04/08/2009 - 15:02

Yes, they are Shetlands and I read also there is no Silver in Shetties. I must say that I didn't thought about dun and didn't looked for more information. Just read a lot off info about palo and smokey black.

lipigirl Wed, 04/08/2009 - 15:05

I really agree with RF on this one....if it's not Dun then maybe just Chestnut with Pangre and Flaxen on Pebbles and black foal on Nala - why don't you get them both tested for cream ?

BamBam Wed, 04/08/2009 - 15:54

Testing is the next step I think.
Thought, I ask here first for opinions because off the knowledge, is easy and cheap ;)

NZ Appaloosas Wed, 04/08/2009 - 21:06

Totally OT, but who's the pony jumping? And the rider? What lovely form both have and what scope! About the only thing I can "complain" about is that the pony is obviously looking down at the ground, and the rider seems to be leaning on him with the hands, but without weight (if that makes sense)...she's very obviously not in pony's mouth, tho'. I'm highly impressed!

Diane

BamBam Thu, 04/09/2009 - 03:09

[quote="NZ Appaloosas"]Totally OT, but who's the pony jumping? And the rider? What lovely form both have and what scope! About the only thing I can "complain" about is that the pony is obviously looking down at the ground, and the rider seems to be leaning on him with the hands, but without weight (if that makes sense)...she's very obviously not in pony's mouth, tho'. I'm highly impressed!
Diane[/quote]

That's my daughter with her now 14 year old Irish Cob mix :) Picture was taken summer 2008.
At that point the pony must be 'looking' down, we call that in dutch basculeren. Don't know the English word, sorry. She's maybe leaning a little bit, but at the right place. Most riders place their hands on the main, that's incorrect. When a jump gets higher, there are not very riders that don't lean a bit on their horse, she's in fact a beginner in jumping, not very experienced. But her pony likes it a lot, so that's why she's jumping ofter now with him. She's is also the rider on the other pictures.

Fledgesflight Thu, 04/09/2009 - 03:25

I do not think Cream for the first foal and I also thought Red Dun or Flaxen Chestnut with pangare before reading anyone else's comments.

The second one might just be Black.

NZ Appaloosas Fri, 04/10/2009 - 03:15

[quote="BamBam"][quote="NZ Appaloosas"]Totally OT, but who's the pony jumping? And the rider? What lovely form both have and what scope! About the only thing I can "complain" about is that the pony is obviously looking down at the ground, and the rider seems to be leaning on him with the hands, but without weight (if that makes sense)...she's very obviously not in pony's mouth, tho'. I'm highly impressed!
Diane[/quote]

That's my daughter with her now 14 year old Irish Cob mix :) Picture was taken summer 2008.
At that point the pony must be 'looking' down, we call that in dutch basculeren. Don't know the English word, sorry. She's maybe leaning a little bit, but at the right place. Most riders place their hands on the main, that's incorrect. When a jump gets higher, there are not very riders that don't lean a bit on their horse, she's in fact a beginner in jumping, not very experienced. But her pony likes it a lot, so that's why she's jumping ofter now with him. She's is also the rider on the other pictures.[/quote]

Bloody H...if that's what she's like as a beginner, I can't wait to see what she can do in a few more years time...might need her to come visit New Zealand! LOL

I think the English word you're looking for is "bascule", and yes he's definitely in a bascule, but from the angle of the picture he looks like he's focused on seeing something on the ground, which might explain why he's jumping so large. As to her hands, I was taught both the crest release (sliding hands up the mane) and the side release (sliding hands along neck). As for leaning, I can't see where your daughter is actually putting weight on her hands, looks more like a balance thing, which could easily be from the fact the pony took the jump like it was 6 feet high LOL

As I said before, I'm mightily impressed with her, and now moreso since you're saying she was a beginner jumper last year. I'm jealous! :laugh1

Diane

BamBam Fri, 04/10/2009 - 10:09

[quote="NZ Appaloosas"]
Bloody H...if that's what she's like as a beginner, I can't wait to see what she can do in a few more years time...might need her to come visit New Zealand! LOL

I think the English word you're looking for is "bascule", and yes he's definitely in a bascule, but from the angle of the picture he looks like he's focused on seeing something on the ground, which might explain why he's jumping so large. As to her hands, I was taught both the crest release (sliding hands up the mane) and the side release (sliding hands along neck). As for leaning, I can't see where your daughter is actually putting weight on her hands, looks more like a balance thing, which could easily be from the fact the pony took the jump like it was 6 feet high LOL

As I said before, I'm mightily impressed with her, and now moreso since you're saying she was a beginner jumper last year. I'm jealous! :laugh1
Diane[/quote]

My daughter was :ymblushing: reading your comment .
I think the pony was looking out extra carefully at this jump, because the jump before he hit the bar ;) He doesn't like that.

Oké, OT again:
read in the mean time a lot off info about red dun and Pebbles does have some characteristics, but has a (red) dun not always have a dorsal stripe ?
I'm still confused about their eye colors, Pebbles had on the age off 14 months still light coloured eyes. I've read that light eyecolors always has something to do with a dilution or something like that?
Also the color off her legs after shedding the babyfur confuses me, have never seen that before.
She lookes like a mix off palo and dun to me. Strange pony :)

rabbitsfizz Fri, 04/10/2009 - 12:21

Bam Bam, Dun [i]is[/i] a dilute....it can easily cause light eyes.
But, having said that, I do agree I cannot see a dorsal stripe on your boy, so Dun may not be a possibility but he isn't Palomino, that's for sure!!! :lol:
Do you have/could you get a picture of his back , even now in winter coat, if he has a dorsal it would show, Rabbits does.
Rabbit will lose even the darker lower legs ion water but you can always see the stripe.

BamBam Fri, 04/10/2009 - 15:49

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]
But, having said that, I do agree I cannot see a dorsal stripe on your boy, so Dun may not be a possibility but he isn't Palomino, that's for sure!!! :lol:
[/quote]

He has no dorsal stripe and I don't think he's palo. Said that before, believe he's chestnut with flaxen m/t.
I suspect that Sofie is a smoky black, but I'm not sure off course. She has all the caracteristics I think. Lighter eyecolor as the other horses here. Not really black, brownish (bit pale) shine, lighter color of her inner earcoat, lightbrown/orange coloured hairs in main and tail all year round. Her half sister (same sire, other dam) had as a foal also a strange color (at the age of 6 months kind off liver/chocolate), light eyes etc. I saw her again at the age of 2 and she had that kind of color Sofie has also.

rabbitsfizz Sat, 04/11/2009 - 08:52

But since her dam is Black and her sire is Chestnut why do you think she is Smoky Black...is the Dam tested to have Cream??

BamBam Sat, 04/11/2009 - 16:08

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]But since her dam is Black and her sire is Chestnut why do you think she is Smoky Black...is the Dam tested to have Cream??[/quote]

Eh, Sofie is the dam and I suspect her off being a Smoky Black (because off all the caracteristics), and therefore Pebbles to be a Palo and Nala maybe Smoky Black also, just as mom. And no, the dam (Sofie) is not tested, that would be the next step. I didn't bother very much, but now Nala is born and also those light eyes with this light inner earcoat, I thought, ask here first and then maybe testing.

rabbitsfizz Sat, 04/18/2009 - 05:38

I would test the dam, but I have a number of Blacks with light eyes, and they aren't Smoky Black...not sure where the eyes come from!!!
You need to test, and then if she does have Cream test the foal, I still don't think it is Palomino, but it would be interesting to find out!