Coat Color Pictures

Wow ACC! Thanks for all the help and comments! I'll get to work, but it's really fantastic having opinions from everyone. I'll tone down the rabicano tail and etc etc.

Again, thanks everyone! You're definitely pointing out a lot of things I may have missed or not realized. The support has made me feel better about my drawing skill. I will DEFINITELY be making you guys judge my future pictures so be prepared to tell me if something resembles the breed or not!

I can't knock your drawings at all. In fact I think they're drool worthy. I want that horse(s) really bad (and I generally don't like roman noses). :rofl: I'd give anything to have that kind of talent!!

That horse (of many colors) is a mashup of many Dutch Warmbloods. I just did a Trakehner recently but I HATE his neck. I'm a bit worried that I'm basing it too much off of what I'd like and not as much off of the actually breed. I have a Quarter Horse, a Paint, a Thoroughbred, Tennessee Walker, and Arab, and I started work on a Dutch Tuigpaard and a... some sort of draft pony I forget. It's been awhile... I'm redoing most all of the bases because I liked the way the Dutch Warmblood turned out. :D

9 down, 500 something to go!

WOW!!!!!

[quote="accphotography"]Sabino: This SCREEEEEAMS dominant white at me. :rofl: It also speaks heavily to splash, but mostly DW. Let me guess, you used a Clyde or Shire for this? :D Compare him to some of the known DWs and you'll see what I mean. It's a GREAT drawing, but I just don't see sbaino when I look at it. Of course that's Admin's call though.

Max Sabino: Very nice. The skin seems a little dark to me again (especially at the sheath), but it doesn't seem as bad as the white for some reason. Personally I wouldn't have left quite as much color (most true max sabinos are virtually all white with the possible exception of a roany medicine hat). This one looks slightly more like a roany loud splash due to that (minus the blue eyes). But I've seen some kinda similar so *shrug*.

Hetero splash: Gorrrrgeous again. Two things *I* would personally change (again, not my call, just my opinion), I think this is alot of leg white to be splash with that little face white. This looks more sabino to me. I would flatten the tops of the stockings more and I would make the face more obviously splash somehow. Let it drop of the side (a partial apron maybe), be noticeably wider at the bottom, rounder at the top, etc. Not necessarily all of that, just something that gives more indication of splash than it presently does.

Here's a nice example of flat top stockings and the amoutn of face white that usually comes with this much leg white (despite the odd solid leg on the first one):

http://www.americandreamhorsesforsale.c…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(granted his stockings do point up a tiny bit)
http://www.doubleprranch.com/doublepr/i…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Smokey cream: Wow. Ummm... does he look white to anyone else? Due to the appearance of darker skin and the grayish tints I swear I see in his body, he really looks gray to me. He's way too light for a smokey cream IMO, especially since your cremello is much warmer.

Here's an example of a smokey cream:

http://www.horse-genetics.com/images/Th…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and one I photographed a week or so ago (standing next t his perlino dam):
http://www.accphotography.com/gallery/d…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cremello: Skin again here too (I'm betting it's the same base for all of them, maybe you can just lighten the base). Otherwise this is pretty good. I'd still like to see it a bit creamier and less gray looking.

Perlino: Have you done one yet?

Gold dun: This looks pretty good except that it seems a bit dark to me (most gold duns look pretty pale to me eyes) and I'd maybe add a little fase masking (the sheath looks great btw).

For grins: I think you left out tobi. :D

Awesome job!!![/quote]

Wow, wow and wow again, I think your pictures are awesome!!! If we are getting picky though, I 'mostly' agree with Acc ;-)

I like the sabino one. Is it Sb1, or just random sort of sabino? I think what you have here works, especially as it's what most breeds are going to see as obvious sabino. I disagree with Acc here on what looks like sb1 and what looks like DW, as there is a very obvious look to all tested sb1's in the Gypsies, and unless sb1 is linked to DW, it's sb1 causing it not DW. It's just that it seems sb1 can have a non roany minimal version too. I'm not sure how common it is? But sb1 is very obvious in the Gypsies as those roany ones.

Anyway other than that, yes I agree with Acc's comments. The hetero splash jumped out at me first, I think it looks more sabino. I like Acc's examples as being a bit more obvious, bit still not loud expression splash?

Yeh the smokey black looks a bit too white to me too

But really I am super impressed, really I am. That last one with all those colours did make me laugh!!
Cheers

Danni

They are so cool, would still be liking a wee bit more skin colour around the eye on them. What fun, I'd love to do something like that, just don't have the equipment or skills. I was thinking of doing some real life paintings of colours at some point though (not for reference, to sell).

I actually like the Sabino layer (I keep thinking TWH and Gypsies). For the rest I think ACC is pretty spot on.

I'd love to see some of the breed images you've done!

[quote="Danni"]
I like the sabino one. Is it Sb1, or just random sort of sabino? I think what you have here works, especially as it's what most breeds are going to see as obvious sabino. I disagree with Acc here on what looks like sb1 and what looks like DW, as there is a very obvious look to all tested sb1's in the Gypsies, and [b]unless sb1 is linked to DW[/b], it's sb1 causing it not DW. It's just that it seems sb1 can have a non roany minimal version too. I'm not sure how common it is? But sb1 is very obvious in the Gypsies as those roany ones.
[/quote]

That is VERY, VERY possible, IMO.

Check these DW examples out (this is just what I came up with in about 3 minutes of looking at known sources):

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColour…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColour…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.accphotography.com/gallery/d…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.blazingcoloursfarm.com/safar…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.painteddesert.net/images/ARC…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColour…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColour…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueColour…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The way the white wraps under the jaw is VERY DW IMO. The shape of the top of the leg white and the sketchiness of the edge of the markings (including the placement of the belly white)... it just all looks very DW to me.

Well after I had written it, I thought well maybe it does really link LOL!! The linkage could be quite common then from what I'm seeing. Interesting!

So are those True Colours ones, sb1's?

Given that they are all KIT mutations, wouldn't similar phenotypes be not entirely unexpected?

[quote="Danni"]Well after I had written it, I thought well maybe it does really link LOL!! The linkage could be quite common then from what I'm seeing. Interesting!

So are those True Colours ones, sb1's?[/quote]

Nope. All dominant whites without SB1.

[quote="Monsterpony"]Given that they are all KIT mutations, wouldn't similar phenotypes be not entirely unexpected?[/quote]

I'd tend to say yes... until I consider roan and tobiano. When looking at horses who seems to only carry SB1, they are either full white, or minimally white. I've not seen hetero SB1s marked like that unless something else seemed to be present. *shrugs*

Hmmm... Does anyone have any good examples of horses that tested Sb1 and NO other white pattern? Actually, even just a detailed description would be fine, but I'd like it to be classic and what you'd imagine as a standard sabino 1. I better change what I "knew" about Sb1 now! Yikes!

Those are all great! I love the Appaloosas! If you want to be REALLY picky (which isn't necessary), I would tone down the mottled skin on the hetero LP, especially around the eyes. I'm not seeing white sclera? Maybe it's not possible to add that. I would also tone down the striped hooves on the Homo LP, and maybe add a touch of roaning on the neck and shoulders.

These are not good examples of what I'm trying to say, but all I have on the computer right now.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/…]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/…]

^Some scelara would be a great touch! I wouldn't think it would be hard to add since you can already change the eye color, but I don't know how your layers are set up.

They are all gorgeous though! Out of curiosity are you just using normal layer styles or changing them up a bit?

I was wondering if anyone would notice the hooves Appy Lady! I'll tone them down since I prefer the other ones anyway. And the mottling. I completely forgot about the white sclera so I can go back and do that pretty easily, I think.

Krickette, I'm changing the layer styles depending on how it looks. Sometimes I have multiple layers of different styles, and then I merge them. It's mostly just playing around and seeing what it looks like, erasing bits and replacing with an alternate layer, etc. Lots and lots of fiddling. I'm still learning how to use the program, and judging by the books I have there is still a lot left to learn. It's amazing to see how many features these programs have. I think the manuals with tutorials are the best thing ever and going through every scenario is a good idea because you can pick up a technique that you didn't even realize existed or was possible.

It's killing me at work not being able to play with the pictures. I really want to fix the issues and start putting up the bay/brown/black base versions for ideas. UGH.

I have only done a few tutorials, I really really need to start doing more. I gonna be sooo busy once I get cs5, it looks amazing. And I've never used illustrator before :oops: :lol: I need to figure it out

Homozygous SB1
[img]http://www.mikarmafarm.com/images/CMtro…]

Heterozygous SB1
[img]http://www.mikarmafarm.com/outlawrtlook…]
[img]http://www.mikarmafarm.com/images/WFRtL…]
[img]http://www.mikarmafarm.com/meme09-17-02…]

Yeah. Those ^. Hard to believe huh? Those are the only ones I know ff the top of my head that are TESTED SB1 and don't appear to have anything else going on.

I really, really think the SB1 in TWHs is linked to a DW mutation.

[quote="Third Peppermint"]Hmmm... Does anyone have any good examples of horses that tested Sb1 and NO other white pattern? Actually, even just a detailed description would be fine, but I'd like it to be classic and what you'd imagine as a standard sabino 1. I better change what I "knew" about Sb1 now! Yikes![/quote]

I put some on here

http://forum.equine-color.info/viewtopi…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The colour carries through too, so get a roany foal it tests to be sb1, not roany foal it tests negative. Ever since there was an sb1 test and folks have testing for it, these seem pretty typical. I wish the DW tests were commercially available!

[quote="accphotography"]Yeah. Those ^. Hard to believe huh? Those are the only ones I know ff the top of my head that are TESTED SB1 and don't appear to have anything else going on.

I really, really think the SB1 in TWHs is linked to a DW mutation.[/quote]

The simplest explanation would be that these horses are minimal SB1's. After all we have lots of pics of minimal frame and we know just as minimal splash exists because of breeding evidence.

Oh I agree with that. I don't necessarily think they all have to be that minimal. I just think that some of these crazy loud ones (namely the TWHs) just fit the DW phenotype SO well that I just don't feel it's coincidence. Ii think maybe I'll write and ask Samantha Brooks her thoughts on this since she did the majority of the research on both genes.

[quote="Third Peppermint"]Hmmm... Does anyone have any good examples of horses that tested Sb1 and NO other white pattern? Actually, even just a detailed description would be fine, but I'd like it to be classic and what you'd imagine as a standard sabino 1. I better change what I "knew" about Sb1 now! Yikes![/quote]

Out of the ones I posted on the other topic, this foal, and that adult seem to be the most typically sb1
[img]http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5782…]
[img]http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7915…]

Heterozygous, the homozygous being all white obviously

Have you read this article ACC? What I'm getting from this is that since the DW mutations occur before the SB1 mutation the horse would in affect be DW and not SB1. Is that correct? Can anyone verify that?

http://www.duncentralstation.com/PDF/KI…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am fairly certain we discussed this with horsegen, and I beleive the consensus from her was that a horse could have both mutations and would still test positive for SB1.

Quote from horsegen
[quote] So if a horse did have both that DW mutation and SB1 on the same chromosome, when KIT is translated, the protein will stop at exon 4, and exon 17 will never even come into play. It's sort of a moot point.[/quote]

Question from me to her on that quote
[quote]Say a horse had a DW mutation, and also had SB1 would they TEST positive for SB1?[/quote]

Her answer
[quote]Yes, no matter which chromosome it was on.[/quote]

That's not exactly what I meant.

[quote]So if a horse did have both that DW mutation and SB1 on the same chromosome, when KIT is translated, the protein will stop at exon 4, and exon 17 will never even come into play. It's sort of a moot point.[/quote]

This is closer what I meant, although I wasn't sure if they would test for it or not.

Thanks for bringing that thread to my attention RMT. I had totally missed it. I'm reading it now.

No problem.

Okay, update!

Heterozygous Splash:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

Updated rabicano:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

max sabino:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

dominant white:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

The double dilutes:

cremello:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

perlino:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

smoky cream:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

I have the updated Lp's I just need to upload them, so that will be the next post.

PS: Don't mind the hooves quite yet! Does anyone have a good example of double dilute hooves and white hooves? So hard to get a good idea of color...

Hetero Lp:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

Homo Lp:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/…]

I attempted to make white sclera, but I don't think it's very visible in a picture of that size...