The Colors of Life

You are here

Coat color and domestication

18 posts / 0 new
Last post
Monsterpony
Monsterpony's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Coat color and domestication
Link between coat color and domestication: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/324/5926/485" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Thought this might be interesting with all the talk on primative horse colors.
hoofpick
hoofpick's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 05/01/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

I can't get into it... I read something a long time ago and I think was discussing it with Horsegen on the old board about foxes in domestication and how they got white patches as the generations came through. Would love to read this one but says you have to pay.

Monsterpony
Monsterpony's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Oh, shoot! I forgot that I was at my university when I posted it. Let me see if I can find a different/free version.

.

Danni
Danni's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

This talks about the white in rats and the fox study,

http://www.ratbehavior.org/CoatColor.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd love to read the science mag one if you find a free version!!

Heather
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Yea I saw the dog /fox study and how white patterns emerged in the more tame animals.

Monsterpony
Monsterpony's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

This is the abstract. I have to find a free full version because it is really interesting.

Science 24 April 2009:
Vol. 324. no. 5926, p. 485
DOI: 10.1126/science.1172750
Prev | Table of Contents | Next

Brevia
Coat Color Variation at the Beginning of Horse Domestication
Arne Ludwig,1,*, Melanie Pruvost,1,2,* Monika Reissmann,3,* Norbert Benecke,2 Gudrun A. Brockmann,3 Pedro Castaños,4 Michael Cieslak,1 Sebastian Lippold,5 Laura Llorente,6 Anna-Sapfo Malaspinas,7 Montgomery Slatkin,7 Michael Hofreiter5,*,

The transformation of wild animals into domestic ones available for human nutrition was a key prerequisite for modern human societies. However, no other domestic species has had such a substantial impact on the warfare, transportation, and communication capabilities of human societies as the horse. Here, we show that the analysis of ancient DNA targeting nuclear genes responsible for coat coloration allows us to shed light on the timing and place of horse domestication. We conclude that it is unlikely that horse domestication substantially predates the occurrence of coat color variation, which was found to begin around the third millennium before the common era.

1 Leibniz Institute for Zoo and Wildlife Research, 10252 Berlin, Germany.
2 German Archaeological Institute, Im Dol 4-6, 14165 Berlin, Germany.
3 Institute for Animal Sciences, Humboldt University Berlin, 10115 Berlin, Germany.
4 Sociedad de Ciencias Aranzadi, San Sebastián, Spain.
5 Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Deutscher Platz 6, 04103 Leipzig, Germany.
6 Laboratory of Archaeozoology, Universidad Autonoma Madrid, 28049 Madrid, Spain.
7 Department of Integrative Biology, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA.

A magazine article that lead me to the paper in the first place:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.

nerd
nerd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 7 months ago
Joined: 03/10/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Cool MP, thanks for the heads up.
Basically they did color testing on archeological samples. Not surprisingly, many of the color mutations we know and love became much more prevalent in the last 4-6000 years.

I'll have more comments once I read through it a little closer, but I have two comments for now:
1. in the supplemental materials they explain how they tested for the mutations. I don't know if it's the same as the VeriSNP method that we were wondering about earlier, but it is a way of effectively testing for a bunch of things at once. Check out multiplex PCR if you can't access the article.
2. Lovely study I'm sure, but SCIENCE? Why can't my work make it into Science? :sad :BH

horsegen
horsegen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 1 week ago
Joined: 03/10/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Nerd, I'm sure you've realized by now that Science is not for the BEST research, it's for the flashiest. I'm amazed at the poor quality of research that gets published in Science. :shock: (Not that I'm saying THIS study is poor quality--I haven't read it--but I've read some doozies in there.)

critterkeeper
critterkeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 3 months ago
Joined: 02/15/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Hang in there ladies - the time will come when Science realizes that the research into horse genetics and their mutations IS a science (it just probably won't be in OUR lifetime) :hammer :laugh1

Kylene "A dog has lots of friends because he wags his tail and not his tongue." ~ Anonymous

hoofpick
hoofpick's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 05/01/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Just had a quick read of the fox/rat article and found interesting the possible connection between color and temperment. Being a red head myself I have found chestnuts (especially with white) ummmm, clash with my personality .......Now I tried to say that in a way as not to upset anyone as that is not my intention.... But am wondering if there is a genetic connection in horses?

Dogrose
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 8 months ago
Joined: 02/26/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

I just did my dissertation on that very subject, well, I looked into whether the chestnut gene has an effect on temperament. The only thing I found was chestnut horses were more likely to be difficult to clip- red headed humans (same gene mutation as chestnut) have more sensitive skin so maybe chestnut horses do. Didn't find any actual temperament differences though.

[color=#804000][i]I bought me a horse twas called a grey mare
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Weren't a hair upon her that was not coal black[/i][/color]

lillith
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 1 month ago
Joined: 03/06/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

I read something somewhere about chestnuts haveing more nerves per square inch of skin than any other color and greys having the least. Possibly where the chestnut mare thing came from, hormonal and sensitive, and the image of the dopey grey gelding/hunter too.

Not that there aren't exceptions temperementaly of course.

Anyway I like chestnut mares,they seem generally sharper to me.

http://lillysthoughtoftheday.blogspot.com/
a fairly pointless little piece of cyberspace where I post random thoughts on just about anything, if you're bored any comments are welcome.

Morgan
Morgan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

I just did my dissertation on that very subject, well, I looked into whether the chestnut gene has an effect on temperament. The only thing I found was chestnut horses were more likely to be difficult to clip- red headed humans (same gene mutation as chestnut) have more sensitive skin so maybe chestnut horses do. Didn't find any actual temperament differences though.

All I can think is: Thank god Sissy is black :lol:
really I've had three hypersensitive horses, one sorrel, one grulla, and one black. And I mean explosive sensitive.

Sara
Sara's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 4 months ago
Joined: 02/13/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Isabelle (bay) is explosive sensitive and so is her chestnut dam. The most explosive horse I've ridden other than Belle was a dark bay TB hunter gelding (also one of the fanciest things I've ever sat on, and also one of the dumbest... ahhh poor thing!)

I think the temperament differences I've most noticed in red horses is the herd dominance thing and the clipping/mane pulling. Under saddle I've not really seen a difference related to color.

[url=http://www.myrewyn.com/]Myrewyn Equestrian[/url]

[url=http://myrewyn.com/sales/]New! Updated sales list.[/url]

lillith
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 1 month ago
Joined: 03/06/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Though a lot of breeds noted for docility are more spotty, gypsy vanners for example, and most draft types show a lot of leg and face white while generally the more hotblooded TB's and Warmbloods tend to have little white. Dunno if thats because the colour is often considered a breed characteristic and bred in or out. Suffolk punches are chestnut with no white and very docile generally. Some of the pony breeds also have little white although a dartmoor isnt a hotblood but I wouldt necesarily consider them docile. :D

Dunno got brain gabble.

http://lillysthoughtoftheday.blogspot.com/
a fairly pointless little piece of cyberspace where I post random thoughts on just about anything, if you're bored any comments are welcome.

rabbitsfizz
rabbitsfizz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: 02/16/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

No, I don't think that has anything to do with it.....UK Shetlands can be wild coloured and some of them are unmentionable little children of unmarried mothers!!
The Gypsy Cobs, remember are a very very new "breed", previously they were bred to pull carts, looking pretty was a bonus, and the louder coloured ones were most prized but if they did not have spot on conformation would be discarded, and there is not a breed of heavy horse that is broken coloured, andthe Knabstrupper is the only breed that is spotted as a breed, so, no, I don't think that theory holds water.
There were some pretty wild patterned Arabs at one time, and they still pop up now and then, more now, since they are being accepted!!!

website: please come and visit... http://www.shadowplayminihorses.co.uk/

lillith
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 1 month ago
Joined: 03/06/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Sorry should have said broken coloured rather than spotted, didnt mean app type just ment pienbald/skewbald. (now theres some nice specific terms)

You're probably right, I was just kicking ideas about.

Sometimes I have to say it to get what Im saying then I realise its not right anyway. lol.

http://lillysthoughtoftheday.blogspot.com/
a fairly pointless little piece of cyberspace where I post random thoughts on just about anything, if you're bored any comments are welcome.

Dogrose
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 8 months ago
Joined: 02/26/09
Re: Coat color and domestication

Has anyone read the whole paper in the original post? If so could you tell me what it says about chestnut/ E locus genes? Might be useful for my viva, cheers!

[color=#804000][i]I bought me a horse twas called a grey mare
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Grey mane and grey tail and green stripe on her back
Weren't a hair upon her that was not coal black[/i][/color]

pandemonium