Classic roan and white markings

Yes there are true roan paints.

Here are two for example
[img]http://image.equinenow.com/94410_1/roan…]
[img]http://www.paintedquarterranch.com/Mare…]

I don't think roan has anything to do with minimal markings.

It's kinda like dun, especially black dun. It's highly unusual to find a grulla with much white at all (except when it inherits tobiano or frame as it doesn't have much choice then). I was told once, and I believe, that white markings were undesirable on duns for such a length of time that they were sort of "bred out". I believe the same is true for roan. While there are pinto roans like the two posted above, roans with simple patterns that express moderately (stockings and blazes) are quite rare IME.

There is this little guy though. His mom only has a small star and two tiny anklets, and his sire has a tiiiiiny snip and one short sock. Neither have produced another like this one either.

[img]http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll16…]

That colt is
a) Male
b ) Red base
C) Sabino roan, not true Roan??? Not sure about that as I do know that foals can Roan out once they change their coats.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/…]

Like this colt has.
Red Dun Roan + Tobiano + Sabino and possible Pangaré and Flaxen.
Red base + male seems to express more fully.
I would be interested to know if the parents of that colt have had another Red base male that did not express??
Also of course, the original question...the Hancock horses are suspect as Roan???

I had noticed that roans seem to have few or no white markings too, maybe it somehow supresses the gene that causes common minimal white markings? The stables where I used to live had an unregistered mountain bred welsh mare who was true roan with no white (chestnut based, might have a pic). There is a tobiano (possibly other things not looked closely) marked true roan horse (looks to be sport horse type) in a local field, I've not seen one before its quite striking. Its in with what I assume is a relative, also roan, but not noticed any markings- will look next time we go by! I've also seen a blue roan locally with not a spot of white. I'm off to look at google images :D

I supose it could be either an effect of the roan itself or just the bloodlines and way they were bred. Hadn't really paid attention to it before. With Dun I'd allways asumed it was the breeding, white markings are undesirable.
The tobiano ones I find interesting because isnt roan and tobi linked? So breeding say a roan QH to a tobiano paint you could get one (25%) but then he/she would most likely pass on one or the other, not both. Unless it crosses over, then you have one that make roan tobianos half the time, then you throw in extension and you get things like I know a stallion that throws red solids and blue roan tobianos all the time. :lol:

Yes that's part of why I say tobiano roans are a whole other issue (frame as well really). Splash and sabino are more random in their expression.

RF: That colt is classic roan for sure.
[img]http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109…]

The dam is a red roan herself, and as I mentioned two tiny anklets and a small star... but I've just noticed she also has a decent sized snip.
[img]http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109…]

She has:

Chestnut filly by a solid (truly solid) chestnut stallion.
Foal is... interesting. She is not roan, but she is more loudly marked than the others. I don't have a full body photo, but she has three small socks.
[img]http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109…]

Bay roan filly by a bay with two small anklets.
Foal has two small anklets and a small, roaned star.
[img]http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109…]

Black roan by the same stallion as the colt posted above (two small anklets and a miniscule snip).
Foal is totally solid.
[img]http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109…]

Chestnut roan colt by bay with two small anklets and a tiny snip (same sire as black roan above).
Photos above.

By the way, all of these "two small anklets" are all on the back and about the same height. Interesting.

Is the first roan on page 1 a proven classic roan? :? :?: It looks more like a sabino roan to me, especially when compared to the others on this page. The head is not really dark enough IMO. ;)

Rabbitsfizz: I would not be able to identify that colt as being roan, neither sabino nor classic :shock: - is that what you always refer to when saying IT'S A MINI? :lol:
Cool boots! 8-) 8-) :!: :roll:

sheza treasure chip is a bay roan overo..

http://www.valleyvisionspaints.com/gall…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[quote="tjuri"]Is the first roan on page 1 a proven classic roan? :? :?: It looks more like a sabino roan to me, especially when compared to the others on this page. The head is not really dark enough IMO. ;)
[/quote]
Heres his other side
[img]http://painteddreamsranch-lv.com/Horse_…]

And another where you can see the the roaning stops at the knees and head
[img]http://www.horseclicks.com/photos/horse…]

Not to mention the fact that true roan can and does occasionally roan the face and legs, and that hes shedding out as well.

There is this polo pony http://www.equine-color.info/index.php?…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, now after you posted the other pics and the links - in all three cases I tend to say they have both: Sabino and Classic roan... ;) but Sabino roan for sure :bounce :flower

tjuri, I posted the picture to show the markings, the colt had not, at that point, obviously, "roaned out" which he has done now...in winter coat he is pretty well white all over!!

Sorry, I misunderstood what was being said, I think, you are referring to what is known as "normal white" markings, on Roans??
Which we think is caused by Sabino and Splash??

Rabbitsfizz: Oh, I didn't know Splash can cause roaning too? I am just familiar with sabino-roaning out of the white-pattern-guild (does sound better than overo, right?) :bounce :laugh1
I would think it is sabino roan when the shades are very cloudy or the whole body is nearly evenly roaned out. :flower

If your colt has roaned out now, do you think it is from sabino or classic roan? Do you have a new pic of him? :)

Splash does not cause roaning.
My colt is classic Roan, no doubt whatsoever.