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clarification on silver

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rabbitsfizz
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Re: clarification on silver

There are no Silver pony stallions in the UK stud book, they are all Bay, Black and Chestnut.....I am not even sure that we have a decent pinto stallion, in fact I am pretty sure we do not, even though they are the next "phenomenon" to happen, and everyone will want one.
We are very slow that way, hidebound and traditionalist, I'm afraid.
That last picture is unbelievable.
How big is he, how big will he be??
Will you ride him...and I'd love to see him in harness!!!

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colorfan
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Re: clarification on silver

Rabbit, the photo you posted on the first page, are you saying that is a tested silver?

So a silver can have a black mane/tail?

When I ride I feel His pleasure.

accphotography
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Re: clarification on silver

Yes they are silver. When cream is present it tends to cancel out silver's effects. However, some just straight silver's have black manes and tails too. The expression varies from horse to horse.

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rabbitsfizz
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Re: clarification on silver

Yes, ACC is correct.
I first noticed this in Buckskins, and then started looking at a few more colours.
It notices most in Silver Black Creams, when you would expect a Silver Black to have a pale mane and tail.
I have to say that the examples I have seen have been in Minis, when Cream does appear to show more often on Black, anyway.
Similarly, Silver tends to cause Grey to go white far quicker, resulting in foals being born white or going so shortly after birth.

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Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

:bootySir Keith, LS Stop the music, Positively Charmed and Solena are great examples of Silver expressing with Cream on a Black base (all were found one after the other in the first three pages of looking).

accphotography
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Re: clarification on silver

Solena just looks silver to me. I don't really see the cream.

Of course there are examples of them expressing together. There are extremes of everything. But who's to say there aren't more that DON'T express like that and get passed off as just having one?

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RiddleMeThis
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Re: clarification on silver

Of course there are examples of them expressing together.

Exactly. No one is saying they ALWAYS cancel each other out. Just that they normally do/can.

Just like you USUALLY can tell when a horse is palomino.

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Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

Yes When cream is present it tends to cancel out silver's effects. However, some just straight silver's have black manes and tails too. The expression varies from horse to horse.

Soo- why say that? There are piles and piles of Smokey Silver Black and Silver Buckskin Horses who look every bit Silver.

I'm yet to see one (especially a Smokey Silver Black ) looking casually like a Smokey Black -though I'm sure there are some out there.

it would be far better to say that the level of Silver expression from horse to horse will differ...with or without Cream.

Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

Of course there are examples of them expressing together. There are extremes of everything. But who's to say there aren't more that DON'T express like that and get passed off as just having one?

More:

Lucky Four Mary Jane
JSW Redi for Romance
Azariah's Absolut Galadriel

All these on the first two pages of looking...

accphotography
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Re: clarification on silver

Fledges shall I start posting opposites to all of those you're posting? I really don't have time sadly.

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Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

That would be fantastic (post names if you do) , otherwise let's agree to disagree.

rabbitsfizz
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Re: clarification on silver

The facts simply are that more MINIS carrying Cream fail to express Silver entirely.
Since my breed of choice at the moment is Minis, although I am aware of the expression differences in other breeds, I am not nearly as "up" on it as I am on Mini expression.
So, IMO, Cream affects the way that Silver is expressed in Minis, and can do so in other breeds as well.
For that reason, if a horse has Silver and is a Black base and not expressing the Silver, I would suggest testing for Silver, as this is the most usual reason for the failed expression.
Of course it is not always so, there are very rarely things that are "always so" in life, I find!

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Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

I have found the exact opposite to be true- If my computer was working all of those names I've listed would've been links...but don't take my word for it- Google search Silver Smokey Black (which brings up mostly large breeds) and Smokey Silver Black (which brings up ALOT of minis)

I didn't go picking through the bunch deciding which ones to showcase - they are all there, one after the other.

ACC, I meant Silver expressing ON a Cream and Blackbase even though I worded it as 'Silver expressing WITH Cream on a Blackbase'. Sorry for any confusion.

accphotography
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Re: clarification on silver

The problem with doing a search of that type is that it is going to bring up the most obvious ones first... how many are out there that aren't even known?

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rabbitsfizz
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Re: clarification on silver

Of course I am only speaking from personal experience, but, I have to insist, I have found this to be true in Minis, and so have most, if not all, people I know in Minis.....
As I said, I cannot speak from experience of other breeds.
Not personal experience, anyway

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accphotography
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Re: clarification on silver

It's happened in other breeds as well.

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Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

The problem with doing a search of that type is that it is going to bring up the most obvious ones first... how many are out there that aren't even known?

The ones that arn't known...? That's like asking the question "If a tree falls in a forrest and there's no one around to hear it, does it make any sound?

How can we say it tends to not express with Cream, when there arn't many/any? examples of it NOT showing to compare it to?

Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

It's happened in other breeds as well.

I would love to see them as foals and as long yearlings before as adults, as Silver can (and has been proven) to darken with age.

rabbitsfizz
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Re: clarification on silver

You are absolutely right! The ones I have seen, as adults, with jet black manes and tails, have had paler manes and tails as foals......

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Jenks
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Re: clarification on silver

I just want to see an updated pic of thorwood's boy.

Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

Meh *shrug*

Me too jenks - he sure is beautiful.

thorwood
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Re: clarification on silver

Gee thanks Jenks & Fledge :flower
Can't wait, he has two mares in foal due later this year, one is bay & one is bay silver.
Will be very exciting to see his bubs.

Here are a couple of pics, just took a bit of video the other day in the rain, could make it in to a youtube clip if anyone is interested.
It is just paddock footage though.
One thing is good, even in our hot Ozzie sun he has not faded in the slightest over summer.

One to show body colour
[attachment=1]DSC_2654.jpg[/attachment]

Another of mane colour, nothing silver about his mane at all,
it is reddish.
[attachment=0]DSC_2721.jpg[/attachment]

[b]THORWOOD PONY STUD[/b]
Breeding Quality Ponies for
Show & Performance

dakotakdq
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Re: clarification on silver

wow hes stunning!!! :love

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lipigirl
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Re: clarification on silver

He is Dreamy ! :love

rabbitsfizz
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Re: clarification on silver

Very nice!!

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Maigray
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Re: clarification on silver

Gawd, he's so good looking he makes me want to cry!

RiddleMeThis
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Re: clarification on silver

Found the perfect example for the discussion we were having earlier in this thread.

IMAGE(http://www.willowbendfarm.com/golden%20as%20baby.jpg)IMAGE(http://www.blazingcoloursfarm.com/lily08filly%20(28)ax.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.willowbendfarm.com/goldenwonder.jpg)IMAGE(http://www.blazingcoloursfarm.com/Miramber%20RPSI%202008%20(27)a.jpg)IMAGE(http://static.equine.com/listing_images/9/7/0/970294_12848788_hd.jpg)

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Danni
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Re: clarification on silver

Oh that looks very cool!! So I forget what the whole thread was about and haven't looked again yet, but has this bucky got silver or is it just lots of lovely frosting? Can you tell, I love buckskins with frosting!!!

Fledgesflight
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Re: clarification on silver

The one on the left is the OP horse (Silver Buckskin) the one on the right is just "buttermilk" Buckskin.

The more I look at him the more I think that his mane and tail are dyed black...it doesn't look so er..natural.

Check this for comparison: (scroll down for the darker mane and tail pics)
http://www.anyssapark.com/site/index.cfm..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

accphotography
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Re: clarification on silver

I didn't know that horse was part of the conversation? :?: It looks to me as thought the mane just got darker over the years. There are photos in "paddock condition" that show the mane and tail nearly black. Maybe the ones in show condition had as much to do with not being allowed to be in the sun as anything. ;)

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