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Brindle & Grulla

rodeoratdogs June 06, 2011 June 06, 2011

Forums

Brindle & grulla, I'll take one :D http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1687344

rodeoratdogs Mon, 06/06/2011 - 21:24

I have no idea, did you you notice that the bridle is just on the one side as well, is that common for it to be just on one side?

Daylene Alford Mon, 06/06/2011 - 21:29

No, I didn't notice that...that may be chimeric after all...

Probably, we'll never know since I doubt they will test him just to satisfy my curiosity. :rofl :bounce

rodeoratdogs Mon, 06/06/2011 - 21:34

Wouldn't I love to have 10 g's to throw down to buy him and breed him to Annie and see just how inheritable it was, and of course I would test him then to settle your curiosity :ymdaydream:

rodeoratdogs Mon, 06/06/2011 - 21:50

So if it was Chimeric would that mean that everytime he threw grulla or dun, he would throw the brindle? and how did he get it anyhow, I don't see it anywhere in his pedigree??? I don't know anything about bridle.

Daylene Alford Mon, 06/06/2011 - 21:56

No, if it was chimeric it means it's not inheritable. It means he is a combination of two embryos that fussed very early in development. So he is a amalgamation of two different animals (different parts will actually have different dna). I'm not saying that is what is going on just that it could be. It could be a somatic mutation also that is not inheritable either.

Threnody Tue, 06/07/2011 - 09:08

It's just extensive dun-factor IMHO. No chimerism required and no different than dorsal barring or girth stripes caused by dun. The dun is inheritable, but the stripes are random and not often passed on to offspring because it's probably caused by a combo of multiple genetics and luck of the draw, possibly with environmental factors in the womb also contributing.

The concept of "inheritable brindle" is frustrating to me because there are so many things that can cause a brindle appearance in non-chimeras (Somatic mutation, skewed markings, curly,extensive dun-factor, skewed sooty ect) . And it often causes people to assume that if it isn't chimerism that it can be easily passed on, which from what I've seen personally is often not the case. Sorry for the rant. >.< Not directed at you guys, just directed at the concept of inheritable brindle.

rodeoratdogs Tue, 06/07/2011 - 09:19

Oh no worries, anything anyone would like ad is helpul to me, since I know nothing at all about brindle.
So has anyone ever had a brindle horse that was ever know to pass it on, or is it always random? Is it see in dun horses more than others?

Daylene Alford Tue, 06/07/2011 - 09:32

It is seen more in dun than in other colors. There have been several breeders who have tried to replicate the pattern all with poor results.

Threnody Tue, 06/07/2011 - 09:35

Dun isn't always symetrical. Even sooty brindle and white brindle will sometimes happen on only one side. The only consistent producing "brindles" are horses who are being passed off as brindle but are really curlies. If you hear someone calling a horse a "seasonal brindle" it's often just a curly who gets "brindle hair texture" seasonally during winter months.

This kind of striping is more common in duns since dun directly causes striping. The majority of horses I've seen labeled as brindle are duns.

Sharp Trilogy is about as extensive a dun-factor horse as you can get. She has yet to reproduce herself. She has made duns, but none with her dramatic striping since the dun gene is directly inheritable, but the expression of the striping is random. You can even see on her that her left rump is more marked than her right rump.
http://www.sharppillows.com/ChiliPage.h…

As for brindle grays, I think they can be caused by either chimerism, which can be gene tested for.Or if they test negative, I think the brindle effect is just a different pattern of graying, like dapples or tetrarch spots.

RiddleMeThis Tue, 06/07/2011 - 12:26

[quote=Threnody]The only consistent producing "brindles" are horses who are being passed off as brindle but are really curlies.[/quote]
I completely disagree. The Brenda Batty Atty line had at least three generations of Brindles and would have had more if the owner hadn't needed to sell.

She has no dorsal stripe or leg bars, so no Dun
[img]http://www.brindlehorses.com/battyatty/…]

Her children that also exhibit very obvious Brindling
No dun
[img]http://www.brindlehorses.com/jbatteate/…]
[img]http://www.brindlehorses.com/jbatteate/…]

This one does have dun
[img]http://www.brindlehorses.com/battyatty/…]

And now and offspring of them who also shows brindling and is NOT dun
[img]http://www.brindlehorses.com/jbatteate/…]

I personally completely disagree that the OP horse is caused by dun.

Threnody Tue, 06/07/2011 - 15:47

I'm in no way saying all brindled are dun, far from it. Just that there are so many causes of a brindle appearance that it isn't as simple as "inheritable" versus "non-inheritable". The Brenda Batty Atty line was probably caused by multiple genes and sooty and did show to have limited inheritance as none of the offspring were as dramatic as Brenda. Could more breedings have isolated something? Possibly.

I'll agree to disagree on the horse posted above not being caused by dun factor. It's just too common IMHO in dun horses to not be correlated. The fact that dun causes stripes is a part of the gene. The dun horse and it's offspring both have very soft striping probably caused by sooty and aren't as stark as this horse's markings.

hoofpick Tue, 06/07/2011 - 19:08

I'm not well so I'm tired but to me the "patterns" shown on a chimerc don't have that "organised" look. The stripes on a dun are straight edged and pretty paralell...Also there seems to be a definite same start and finishing point for the stripes on a dun..eg the leg barring ..all the stripes seem to start and finish at the same length. Thats my observation, so in saying that Ibelieve the two don't cause the other or even have anything to do with each other.

Threnody Tue, 06/07/2011 - 19:21

Sorry you're not feeling well Hoofpick. I'm just slightly confused by what you were trying to say in your post though.