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Brindle?

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Brindle mare
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Brindle?
My mare is a confirmed seasonal brindle. Picture of her stripes are here: Brindle has texture and this horses dark stripes consist of very short hair. They look like craters later in the season. (first picture) she also has one on her shoulder: (last picture) Her filly also has a strange stripe on her shoulder. (middle picture) I don't think this is foal countershading because of the drippy shape of it. There are no other lines of any kind on her. Could her mother's brindle gene have been passed to her filly? The filly is now over 1 year old.
Monsterpony
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There is at least one form of

There is at least one form of brindle that appears to be genetic so it is possible.

.

CMhorses
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if the hairs are shorter ( as

if the hairs are shorter ( as mentioned in the other thread) couldnt that cause the color of the striping? either way it does seem that seasonal brindles are more of coat texture difference, kinda like curly horses

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Katie
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Out of curiousity, what

Out of curiousity, what colour is your mare?

Brindle mare
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She is liver chestnut. Her

She is liver chestnut. Her yearling filly is a sooty bay.

I did read somewhere that some suspect sootiness and brindle are tied somehow. ????

CMhorses
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it seems like a lot of

it seems like a lot of brindles are dun or roan and some ive seen look sooty, its just an idea, but if its any of those 3, its something screwing up the placement of the dun, roan or sooty and causing it to stripe instead of being how it normally would be, but thats just my opinion on it

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Threnody
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Looks like she may have

Looks like she may have polygenic hair texture. I have recently seen a sooty/seasonal brindle mare who had a foal with very dramatic hair texture difference over their white pattern giving it a brindle appearance. It appears to be a polygenic expression needing multiple genes working together to influence the appearance.

Sooty can cause stripes on it's own. But when you combine that with hair texture variance it can make it appear more bold. They aren't linked as far as we can tell, but they can influence each other. There are however breeders claiming that their curly horses or dun horses are inheritable brindles.

Inheritable brindle is a misnomer because it causes people to think it can be passed on through simple inheritance. But since "inheritable brindle" appears to be polygenic the results are variable and not easily selectable. Brenda Batty Atty a famous brindle had several brindle foals. This caused her brindle to be dubbed inheritable. Some foals had hair texture, some had colored striping, and some had both. But none were as dramatically colored as their dam.

Now most horses who trace back to her are either dun or curly. Traits more than likely added in by other horses. Dun and Curly are simple dominant genes (although there is also a recessive form of curly). Whatever caused Brenda's brindle has been diluted in her descendants. Occasionally some horses (from any background, although I have seen it more in American gaited breeds) appear to crop up with the right combination of genes to have some form of brindle caused by hair texture and made more obvious in the presence of sooty if it forms in stripes.

I used to think all hair texture brindles were curlies (because those were the only ones being shown as examples of hair texture brindles) but after seeing more horses with variable hair texture who are not curly, polygenic hair texture appears to be another plausible cause of a brindled appearance.

That said, are there any images of your mare with a heavy winter coat and do her mane and tail get thinner in the summer? Also if you have any images of her ear fluff unclipped that could help.

CMhorses
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so threnody, are you part of

so threnody, are you part of that equine color group on FB? thats where i saw that pinto brindle foal

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Threnody
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Actually, the owner PM'd me

Actually, the owner PM'd me on HGS and asked my opinion since she knows I study the causes of horse brindle. I was really honored that she asked. :)

Could you send me a link the the facebook page CM? I'm curious and finally have a facebook page for Virtual Pwnies. So I finally have a way of seeing the cool facebook stuff.

Brindle mare
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The stripes are a darker and

The stripes are a darker and shorter hair compared to the "main" hair color.
I'll post ear tuft pics later tonight.

This is an imported Hanoverian so don't know if they can have dun or roan.

Threnody
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No dun or roan in these guys.

No dun or roan in these guys. The dun and roan brindles are a totally different thing.

This is a roan brindle caused by a skewed/misplaced pattern expression. The roaned hairs formed in stripes instead of distributing evenly.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/sb...

And this is a dun whose striping is more expressive than the average dun causing a brindle appearance.
http://www.theequinest.com/images/brindl...

Although roan and dun are inheritable, these brindled expressions are not. This is why understanding a brindle appearance in horses can get so confusing, there are so many different causes of it and I haven't even mentioned them all in this thread. :lol:

Looking forward to the pics!

tjuri
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Threnody wrote: And this is a

And this is a dun whose striping is more expressive than the average dun causing a brindle appearance.
http://www.theequinest.com/images/brindl...

Although roan and dun are inheritable, these brindled expressions are not.

Looking forward to the pics!

Several offspring of this stallion show brindle, even some grand-get, how do you explain this?

Threnody
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Which stallion?

Which stallion?

tjuri
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The grullo stallion.

The grullo stallion.

Threnody
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None of his offspring express

None of his offspring express brindling to his extent. And in all the images of his offspring I have seen they appear to have stripes easily caused by dun factor itself. Extensive dun factor expression is a combination of polygenic and environmental influence, so not a directly inheritable in one dose kind of deal. The dun gene itself however is. He likely had not only some genetic but environmental influences that boosted his dun factor. Environmental influences he cannot pass on to his foals.

Is it unfathomable that a foal of his might get the right combination of factors to express similar to him? Not at all. But it is extremely unlikely and could also happen in any other horse born with dun as well.

rubberduckyyy
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I know this is a little late,

I know this is a little late, but I posted a picture a while back of my friends mare that shows some brindling-type pattern and everyone agreed it was allergy related, even though the mare was born that way. I don't understand how it could be allergy related then, I mean can they have allergies in utero or something? Anyways, she has hair in her brindling "stripes", but the hair is definitely a different texture and a slightly different color. Could she be a texture brindle? I'm not totally sold on the allergy thing. I'll see if I can find that thread; it's got pictures.

EDIT: Here's the thread: http://colorgenetics.info/equine/forum/b...

Threnody
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It was never mentioned in

It was never mentioned in that thread that she had the hair texture consistent from birth. And the fact that she and her dam sound like they get serious sweet itch in the summer are a likely cause of follicle damage to cause the appearance.

Are there any images of her as a foal? I'm curious to see how it would compare to normal wavy baby texture.

rubberduckyyy
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No pictures that I know of.

No pictures that I know of. Maybe one or two floating around but it would take some digging. Until I find one though I guess we have to go on the owner at the time's word :-?

Threnody
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Unfortunately many foals get

Unfortunately many foals get foal hair texture, so in this case saying she had it since birth may or may not be the acctual case. I hope the pics can be found!

pandemonium