Blue eyes - what gene causes it?

Frame, splash and homozygous cream cause blue eyes.

The black buckskin... does she have a white pattern?

The buckskin tobi's eyes are likely just a baby color and will probably change to brown.

Cream only causes blue eyes in cremellos, perlinos and smokey creams.

The chestnut tobi likely has splash. No, blue eyes mean nothing with relation to tobi or it's passage rate.

The black bucky has no white on her at all. Sire is black, dam is pali tobi.

The chestnut tobi with the 1 + 1 1/4 blue eyes is just your standard garden variety tobi... No flashy markings

Are these minis? Splash can pretty frequently present as blue eyes only on a solid horse, especially in minis. Frame also can. Have any of them been test for lethal white overo?

They are Shetlands, albeit small ones.

No flashy miniature horse breeding where overo etc is common... These just have basic tobi breeding.

The bucky tobi colt (homozygous)

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The black bucky filly with blue eyes

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Both have just been tested with UC Davis to confirm their colours.

The chestnut tobi is not mine, but one I was considering buying, so naturally she's not on my website.

You're right. Frame is pretty rare in true Shetlands. Splash is very common though, especially in tobis with little face white I've noticed.

The bucky tobi is indeed baby cream blues and will change.

From what I can tell the black bucky's are truly blue and likely splash.

What did the black bucky test as?

Black bucky was only tested for cream. Her result was N/Cr Her eyes are BRIGHT blue, & really stand out.

The colt (bucky tobi) was tested for cream, agouti, tobi & red as they wanted to be 100% of his colours. His results were: E/e A/a N/Cr TO/TO

That makes sense on the colt. I'd be curious to see the rest of the filly's genotype.

Not sure what you mean by genotype (I'm still a genetics nuffy)

The filly's sire was black (Pali x black) a full sister to him is the same colour.

Dam is pali tobi (Pali x chestnut tobi) Mare has thrown a couple of dilute foals.

I'm just wondering if she's actually buckskin, smokey brown or smokey black.

I was wondering Smokey Black.

Her breeder has her sire listed as black & he looks black (considering he's in paddock condition, so not a 'true' indication of his colour.

I've been doing some 'extra' research. The Shetland studbook over here & the mini pony studbook, both have him listed by his breeder as black buckskin.

What colours are generally needed to produce a smokey black? Her DNA came back as positive for Cream, so we know she is a dilute at least...

She really looks too dark to be buckskin or even smokey brown to me. The sire and dam are right... the dam would just have to have a recessive agouti allele ('a') to pass on.

If these are basic Shetlands as opposed to AmShets then Frame is unknown and Sabino is[i] supposed[/i] to be unknown but I am not 100% convinced on that one!
So Splash and Tobiano are your only options. The filly does not look Buckskin to me- where are you, though as I do know that Oz and NZ often call Smoky Black "Black Buckskin" (have NO idea why!) and she looks Smoky Black to me, not Brown (although it is always a possibility)
I like you ponies, btw.....

Rabbitsfizz... We are in Aus, and they are the 'Genuine' shetlands, not the American Shetlands who are actually mini horse.

She can't be brown as she has already been tested to carry cream.

I dont mind if she's buckskin or smoky black, so long as she's carrying cream, which she is.

[quote="sialer"]What colours are generally needed to produce a smokey black? Her DNA came back as positive for Cream, so we know she is a dilute at least...[/quote]

Smokey Black is a Black Buckskin, so a cream gene and a black gene. The Aussie buckskin societies just call it black buckskin instead of smokey black. It means though smokey blacks can be registered as buckskins (which might be why they do it?).

Hate the term black buckskin. A smokey black & black buckskin is not the same thing.

My 2 cents, she is a smokey black :-)

[quote="bonjovifan"]Hate the term black buckskin. A smokey black & black buckskin is not the same thing.[/quote]

It is in Australia :) I didn't make it up, it's just the way it is!

No different to americans calling silver, 'silver dapple'. It's incorrect and I hate it, but I can't change it as it's just what so many americans call a black silver :)

I hate it when they're called "chocolate" or "taffy"... but there you go. LOL

LOL, it's what you get used to I guess! It's why I hate sponbergs books actually, he uses all the local 'call' names for colours instead of genetic names :?

AGREED!!!!

lol i'm in Australia too.

LOL, I remembered that after I replied! But I've noticed you are more up on using american terms, maybe because you have mini's? They do seem to use them more. I'd never heard of silver dapple until I knew some mini breeders, although they called it "silver dapple taffy" then.. Which is SUCH a mouthful LOL!

Is black buckskin another name for smokey black or is it something different?

silver dapple= silver on a black base yes?

I know the term "black bay" here in NZ is for those bays that are so dark it's hard to tell if they are bay or black. I would think that "black buckskin" would be the same, but with creme added.

Diane

I find it annoying that alot of american registered minis are described as grey when they are silver black , its understandable on the old pedigrees before colours were understood and testing was unavailable but I know people that still say grey when they mean silver (and they do know there's a difference!)

I'm an Aussie and smokey blacks called black buckskins annoy me too. Mind you, I sometimes refer to my silver bay as a silver bay/taffy so the aussies that don't know what the silver gene is, know what colouring I'm bacially referring to. Not because I'm fond of using taffy. I'm not because it annoys me when I see flaxen chestnuts called taffy. No wonder some people get confused.

I might have left a stopped in the middle of a polo game to tell the announcer that my few spot boy was not a grey.