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Blue-eyed Arab colt?

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Heidi
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Blue-eyed Arab colt?
RFR The Iceman https://www.addisequineauctions.com/EZ_DispLib_Item.aspx?ID=79" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; In RED are the things I am querying...
Extraordinary Purebred, triple registered, blue-eyed Overo Arabian. This amazing young colt is the RAREST COLORED Arabian Stallion in the United States. He is a true Blue-eyed, Overo marked purebred Arabian. The Iceman is tripled registered as a purebred Arabian (AHA), a Pinto horse (PtHA) # 128245 and as a Sabino (SAHR). Iceman is negative for lethal white...
This horse was posted at HorseCity and someone commented: "Sabino is a form of overo (along with splashed white and frame)." I thought Sabino was its' own thing and Overo/Frame/LW were one-and-the-same? What makes this amusing to me, is the person who made the above comment...appears to have a Paint in their avatar. :mrgreen:
critterkeeper
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Well, kinda sorta..."overo" is a collective term and is defined as any one, two or all three of the following patterns: splash, frame and sabino. As for LWO, that IS frame (those 2 are one in the same).

As this Arab has blue eyes it has to have either splash or frame as those are the only 2 (so far) associated with true blue eyes. I am glad they tested for frame. Unfortunately he is grey and that can blur the color boundries where it meets the white and imo detracting from the pattern (he will just keep lightening up :sad ).

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lipigirl
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Looks very splashy to me ! and quite startling because of the grey but other than that rare??? :?

Morgan
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Although we have been told The Iceman is most likely homozygous for pattern, he is such a rare color pattern combination that there is no current genetic test which can absolutely confirm his capacity to pass on his own unique traits.

Lol
Ok let's see, he is a splashed white. He is also a somewhat lowely marked one which makes it uncertain if he is homozygous or heterozygous (acording to the theory of how splash expresses more when homozygous). If he were it would take breeding him to a splash mare to produce the same pattern (extremely unlikely in arabian mares unless you sought one out) or else all the foals would have one copy and be quite minimally marked. In fact I would say he has MORE chance of producing color like himself if he is in fact heterozygous and has that much expression with only a single copy, but that would be less than 50% as some of them would be more minimal.
And they should take out "the rarest colored". I'm pretty sure there are a few other blue eyed splash, maybe not grey but like that's not exactly desirable in a pinto? lol

oh I found another one:
http://www.ponycity.com/stallions/spatz/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He is considered a Sabino (the ONLY Pinto pattern that exists in Purebred Arabians) though he is probably more accurately described as a Splash as his markings are consistent with that definition- including a partially blue eye.

That doesn't even make sense. :hammer What is it with Arab people and the refusal to accept Splash as a genetically distinct pattern from sabino?

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

They are cousins to the people who say that blue eyes is caused by sabino and that the draft horses are proof of that... :BH :BH :BH :BH

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Heidi
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

My bad! I was under the mis-conception that frame and overo were the same. :oops:
This year, I plan to devote more time to learning/recognizing the spotted paterns of both pintos and appys. I have the color basics down; base and creams. Last year I learned about silver, but this year I need to learn more about the other dilutes, like champagne and pearl.
heidi

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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Rare? I think not!!
But he's very very striking with those ice blue eyes & being gray!!
I just LOVE grays!! Beautiful!!

accphotography
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Actually I am of the opinion that he IS rare. Blue eyes in Arabs is very rare IME and coupled with gray... he may be the only one.

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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

He is a Splash, gelding quality, very ordinary, Arab colt.
NOW do you see why I hate the term "overo"?????????
Rare??
I think NOT!!!!
Yet this affects the price and dooms this non-breeding quality animal to a life in some idiots back yard breeding pet quality, double decker bound, foals.
Probably Grey ones, to boot!!
UGH :BH :BH :hammer :BH :BH

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lillith
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Kinda ironic that the 'rare' pinto patterns are all going to dissapear into the grey as his coat goes white. Yes blue eyes is fairly rare, Khembosai or Moonlight Money Maker lines do seem to pop it out every now and again but most people breeding for patterns or colour avoid grey like the plague because it covers them up so as a breeding stallion for colour he may not be that popular. I hope he has other things going for him.

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Heidi
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

I hope he has other things going for him.

I'm not so sure he does. Rabbit outlined it best; he's a pet-quality Arab, himself...yet he is marketed as breeding material because of his eyes/markings.
A member at HC was not very kind in her quick evaluation of him. She works with and shows Arabs on their circuit. Her daughter does the riding/showing.

Sara
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

I actually like grey horses with blue eyes. *shrug* I like this guy's black eyeliner (which will remain as he greys, very striking against the blue eyes) better than bald faced horses with blue eyes. Not that this makes him breeding quality -- I can't comment on that since I only looked at his face shot. I have to go back through the thread to see where you guys are seeing body shots of him.

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RiddleMeThis
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

I have to go back through the thread to see where you guys are seeing body shots of him.

Im not sure there are any. Hes been brought up several times on several different forums and I have yet to see a body shot of him. Though if someone has one I would love to see it.

(BTW I believe this is the stallion whos owners are into arabian racing, and have planned to go that route with him. Ill look back at previous threads and see if its him.)

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Sara
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Oh. How can everyone be so critical with just a face shot? Is it based on his bloodlines or something?

If they're going to race him, then yay. Let him prove himself on the track and maybe if he does people will stop picking on his color.

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rabbitsfizz
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

He's an Arab.
If he does not have the head, he does not have anything!!!
The head is very plain.
Were I buying an Arab I would not buy or breed form a plain headed one, end of story.
Were I buying an Arab I would look at the head first, then the body, obviously if the body/legs etc were not also excellent I would not buy/breed it, but the head will always come first, and if his head is the best thing about him, well, he's rubbish, quite frankly!!
Make a nice enough gelding, although I have seen better horses gelded.

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Sara
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

See, I think that's just ludicrous. A horse is dismissed before anyone has seen his conformation, how he moves, or how he performs? I have an Arab with a straight profile and I like her face much better than my Arab with a dish. In fact, I try to grow my dish-faced Arab's forelock nice and long to hide it! Don't racing bred Arabs tend to have less dishy heads? The dish interferes with breathing.

I'm SO glad I run with the performance crowd. :roll:

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TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

the racing bred arabs I've seen all have the less dishy faces...yes. Some of them have less of a dish than my haflinger mare has...LOL(she's got a slight, cute dish).

lipigirl
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

I have chosen to comment on his stallion abilities due to the fact that I haven't been asked and like Sara says I have no confo shots to judge him buy.

Sara
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

I was just out filling waters and had a thought. There is a lot of emotion tied up in language and when horses with straight or convex profiles are called "common" or "plain" or the particularly deplorable "hammer-headed" it creates a negative feeling, even when used neutrally. I even used the word plain in my own post, and I like those heads! I'll go back and edit that out.

I'm going to make up my own terms for horse heads now, and use them accordingly. From now on, I will say I like horses with respectable heads. I don't much care for those foofy-headed ones. ;) :P

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TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

my favorite horse heads are those sorta roman head/nosed TWHs with the big mule ears....i think it makes them look handsome and distinguished!

Sara
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

I like Thoroughbreds the best. Straight profile, noble expression, and ears? The bigger the better. :X

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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

If I were buying an Arab I would want one with a good head, yes, and I would dismiss it out of hand if it did not have one.
If I were buying a riding horse, then, obviously the criteria would be different.
This horse is being marketed as an Arab, I don't care if it is racing or otherwise, if it has not the head it is not an Arab.
This does not stop it making a top class riding horse but it does stop it making a top class Arab.
Bit like a Mini, for me this means under 34" (we have no market for 34-38" Minis here) so I look at the height first.
If the height is OK I look at the rest of the horse, as I said in my last post.
But if the animal is 35" there is no point whatsoever in my looking at it, especially if it is a stallion.
If an Arab, being marketed as an Arab, has not a beautiful head, it is of no use to me.
I am well aware that I cannot "ride the head" and I would, of course, look at the rest of the animal carefully after I had looked at the head.
Even so, if the head is not good there is no point looking at the rest of the animal, in this case, as he is being marketed as an Arab, not a riding horse, and a breeding Arab at that, and without an exceptional head he is no use as a breeding Arab.
Of course I would not buy him anyway as he is Grey but that is a personal prejudice!!

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lipigirl
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

I like the classic Baroque head of the old type Iberian.

rabbitsfizz
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

That's fine on an Andalusian or a Lusitano or even a Barb, but it has no place on an Arab.
Gerwazy was one of the soundest most correct Arabs that I have ever seen, he moved like a dream and was a performance horse at a time when people sat and looked at their Arabs...he also had a temperament to die for...but also, God love him, a head like a bucket.
Pat kept him entire because she had the facilities to do so, and she even bred him on a few of her very beautiful mares, but the head came through!
Consequently he was not used half as much as he maybe should have been.
He was used on part bred mares and performance mares and he delivered the goods, there was a place for him, even fifty years ago.
But apart form the head, he was pretty near faultless.

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accphotography
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

No offense intended but I think it's absolutely ridiculous to judge breeding quality or not on a head shot alone. On top of that on ONE head shot that may not accurately portray the horse's head AT ALL. This horse has actually won some halter classes so he's obviously not bottom of the barrel stock. I just wish people would at least give some benefit of the doubt until they see more photos. *shakes head*

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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Thanks acc. I thought I was missing something in this thread, a link with more photos or something. Then I googled him and still can't find anything but that one head shot!

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accphotography
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

I've sent messages back and forth with his owner and that's the only photo *I* have seen so I *seriously* doubt there are other photos out there.

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RiddleMeThis
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

No offense intended but I think it's absolutely ridiculous to judge breeding quality or not on a head shot alone.

Completely agree, especially if hes a PERFORMANCE horse. Might as well just kick him out cause hes gray.

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Sara
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

hahahahahahahahha RMT I read your post as "Might as well just kick him out cause hes gay" for a second there!

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RiddleMeThis
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

hahahahahahahahha RMT I read your post as "Might as well just kick him out cause hes gay" for a second there!

ROFL definitely NOT.

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Sara
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Re: Blue-eyed Arab colt?

Is there a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among Arabian racehorses?

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