Bider Markings

[quote="DunDreamin"]I still think its kind of funny.. I've been asked if some of the horses were Kigers and a few other types of horses, when I take them to speed events etc.

I guess everyone's interpretation or experience is different enough it leads to everyone having the capacity to learn something new. :newbie[/quote]

Well...back before it was discovered there are such things as brown horses, there used to be this saying, that a person who calls a horse brown, either only owned 1 or they owned two many....it went something like that. Basically I find that if a person is working with a color breed and showing/breeding professionally, they most likely will know a decent amount of information when it comes to the colors/patterns in their horse. Maybe not to the extent of this forum LOL, but at least enough to recognize a dun when they see one.

Though I think it's the media that has many automatically think of Mustang when they see a dun horse. I had that mentality going into it, but after a few shows of open halter color classes, I realized dun wasn't just for mustangs. Growing up everything that was a mustang was a Dun, and usually those Bay duns, or Dunskins. From toys, to characters in books. And they still do it, I guess a dun mustang is just one of those American icons LOL.

I wonder if in any of this conversation is more evidence that zebras are dun? :D

[quote="accphotography"]I wonder if in any of this conversation is more evidence that zebras are dun? :D[/quote]
Oh gods..it's been years now..and I don't remember the name exactly. I /think/ it was from the 1800's? Or maybe earlier. It was a hand illustrated horse book. A man was in Argentina(?) and was documenting the colors that he saw there. He described, and I believed drew, this horse that looked like a Zorse. And I think it was debated whether he was talking about dun, or even brindle. It might have been Brazil, but they were Criollos that he was looking at I'm pretty sure. Think the name started with B....damn thats bugging me that I don't remember now. Hmmm....now I wonder if I red about it on the brindle horse web site *wooshes on over* ahhh...yeah I guess the final say on it was a Brindle Dun. Wonder where I got the Zorse idea from, maybe it was lost in translation some where.

Hmmmm. Still sounds suspicious. Have you ever really looked at the detailed markings of zebras and compared them to duns? There's a thread on here somewhere where I posted comparison photos and it's pretty darned convincing IMO.

I'll search it. But I know different Zebra species have different patterns. And I guess there's been some success in breeding 'quagga' types by breeding the lightest and least expressive horses together, eventually showing a reduction in pattern. However I don't know if all species of zebra would be able to work this way. I found a sight along time ago which shows some strange color mutations of zebra.

I suspect they would.

I've seen some that definitely looked double dilute (blue eyes, pink skin, very diluted stripes). So maybe they very rarely carry a cream gene (or something like it) in addition that obviously wouldn't express on them. Although it might explain some of those with chocolatey stripes instead of black.

I wish I could find your thread. There are species that have both red and black pigment on them. And I suppose it could be something going on there with cream, if it's even on the same locus(?). The Zebras I've seen, their black pigment doesn't act like horses. They act more like a cows. And it doesn't fade out in the sun. So it also may not be susceptible to single dilutions, making it possible for two recessive carriers to have a double dilute offspring. That is, if it's even a cream dilution. It could be one of those albinism mutations which are randomly seen in nature. Has any research been done on the subject? There I go confusing myself, because cream is a type of albinism any way, blah. I wouldn't know where to go with the whole albino thing, because last I remember, albinism isn't attributed to any single cause, but it's a combination of effects yes?

It's kind of ironic that this came up, because in my searching for images I came on this site: http://www.wildwatch.com/sightings/is-i…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And just last month this is what Leah had to say in a response about a white zebra "Yes, this would be an "albino" or white-phase zebra. This coloration is not unheard of in wild zebra populations, and is selectively bred for in some captive herds. If she bred with a zebra carrying the white-gene, you would have a 50% chance of that foal itself being "white"."

I found some interesting images out there, all different shades, which I find strange because I would have thought they would be universal in color. However it does not say if these zebra are wild, captive, or what speicies/sub-speicies.

Here is the mutation website, which will cause me to make a post on the Bider Markings thread http://www.madamzebra.com/Zebra-Mutatio…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...*woosh*

http://www.madamzebra.com/Zebra-Mutatio…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Check out the second photo...does that not look like an extensive Bider marking? I'm not sure who wrote it, but they define it as follows:

Abundism is the occurence of excessively abundant dark markings (such as spots, stripes or other patch types) due to increased dark pigmentation on the coat, fur or skin of some animal species. As the number and/or size of these markings increases, some overlap and merge causing the effect of pseudomelanism where the animal appears completely black. The background color may still be discerned between the markings.

The fact that Horsegen says that's an albino makes me think it's HIGHLY likely it's cream or cream related.

Here's one thread where we discussed it:
http://www.equine-color.info/phpBB3/vie…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's another on another forum where I posted comparisons:
http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/ho…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's another but I can't seem to find it.

It most certainly does. And look at that UBER diluted, pink skinned foal.

Also... many people haven't payed much attention to this, but the skin under their "white" markings/stripes is black, not pink.

Apparently it is time for me to get some sleep...or I need to pay closer attention...I totally overlooked we were talking about Zebras in the Bider thread XD hahahaha...so much for not being able to delete that grammy winning moment.

>_> HorseGen is Leah? *goes to look at mommy pictures again*...has it been that long that I forgot what she looked like?

Oh bah. I'm wrong, that's not her. There is a reason (a very good one) I thought that was her, but I won't say on open thread (HG's privacy reasons). LOL

LOL thats fine. I just thought I was loosing my mind...more so then usual!

[quote="accphotography"]I wonder if in any of this conversation is more evidence that zebras are dun? :D[/quote]

lol sometimes I have to wonder...

JN: Sorry if I did an overthrow on the thread. I found some "biders" (which are new to me, or at least the term) who looked a lot like a more extreme dun factor horse.. but most who look like someone poured paint on them lol

Even more homework for me. :sad