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Barlink factor?

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accphotography
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Re: Barlink factor?

HAHAHA Horsegen! The story is ALL over the place! And yes... someone else is claiming the same work that UC Davis is claiming. :roll:

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Danni
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Re: Barlink factor?

I think I'm lucky I only know the UC Davis story!! :D

peruvianpasogal
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Re: Barlink factor?

If you are saying UC Davis discovered Pearl I do beg to differ with you. Carolyn Shepard of the ICHR discovered pearl, the members of the ICHR helped document pearl horses and New Dilutions was started to follow the gene in the paint lines of Barlink Macho Man, the Andilusian/Lusitano lines, and the Peruvian Paso lines. This I know because I was one of many members who researched pedigrees long before Carolyn Shepard turned it over to UC Davis, I can go back on the ICHR yahoo group archives along with the New Dilutions archives and verify dates on this. Also when UC Davis first wrote about pearl the credit was given to Carolyn but that has since changed. So if UC Davis now claims all credit shame on them.

Third Peppermint
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Re: Barlink factor?

Whoa, time out. I'm going to propose this:

UCDavis did discover (in the scientific way) that pearl was what it was, through the use of science and technology. We can't say otherwise, unless the ICHR has a genetics research lab hidden away somewhere.

Carolyn and everyone else can very well be credited with the suspicion to pursue this as a new gene that was previously undocumented and record the pedigrees, therefore discovering that something was rotten in the state of Denmark.

Does that work? Please don't fight... :sad

horsegen
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Re: Barlink factor?

I was not suggesting that UC Davis first noticed and documented the pearl dilution, peruvianpasogal. I know that Carolyn Shepard was very involved in that, and we were communicating with her quite a bit throughout the research process. What I stated in my post is that UC Davis found the genetic mutation responsible for the pearl dilution, and before we knew that it was pearl, tried to come up with a name for what we thought at the time was the "Barlink Factor". Through our conversations with Carolyn and her experience with pearl, we decided to test pearl horses for the new mutation, and that is when we realized that they were one and the same. When I say "discovered pearl", I mean "discovered the causative mutation for pearl." It sounds like you thought I meant "discovered that there was a new dilution in horses", which is not what I meant. I thought that was clear from my previous post, but perhaps not. I apologize if I caused confusion.

I don't know what "story" ACC has heard about pearl, so I don't know how all this contradicts anything else out there.

accphotography
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Re: Barlink factor?

There's yet another story out there on top of those two as well. It's been an interesting mess IMO.

No need for fighting IMO. As far as I know it's not our battle to fight.

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horsegen
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Re: Barlink factor?

I don't think PPG and I really have two different stories...more like two sides to the same story, followed by a misunderstanding. :smile: I certainly wasn't saying that UC Davis somehow found and categorized the pearl dilution...we just found out what caused it. I think that's where the mix-up happened.

accphotography
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Re: Barlink factor?

I can see that. Still a bit different than the story I've heard from some other sources... but I think some people like to embellish their friends/acquaintances.

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Danni
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Re: Barlink factor?

I thought Carolyn Shepard and UC Davis were the same story...

peruvianpasogal
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Re: Barlink factor?

but I think some people like to embellish their friends/acquaintances.

Hope your not aiming that at me, I can dig up quite a bit of written facts to back what i am saying :)

accphotography
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Re: Barlink factor?

Oh no... not you. You may know the people I'm talking about, but I don't know. But no, I haven't heard these things directly from you.

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champagneqh
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Re: Barlink factor?

In a way maybe this is not our fight but when some one comes on with the LOL, snicker snicker, hahaha these idiots are trying to claim they did something they did not attitude then it becomes our fight. If not then it would have never been insinuated that someone was trying to take credit for work that it seems a representative of UC Davis says “WE” discovered all by our selves with no help. I too am a member of both the ICHR and New Dilutions and I “lived it” so to speak. I can also get archives of both list to show the time frame that WE were working on documenting the pearl gene in both the American Paint Horse Barlink line and in the Iberians. I can post links to the articles published in the Champagne Horse Journal in July 2002 and again in 2003 parts that were republished by The Paint Horse Journal in 2009. I can show you where Dr Sponenberg gave Carolyn Shepard credit for the discovery of a “new dilution” gene in the Barlink bred APHA horse line in his book on equine genetics published in 2003 Page 180. I can also tell you who flew to California from Ohio and with Carolyn Shepard drove to an Iberian ranch and personally pulled hair for UC Davis to test as the ICHR and New Dilutions members suspected that pearl and the Barlink factor was the same thing. This was the first Iberian horse that tested as pearl. I can name the ranch the owner and the horse tested. Or you can go to the archives of the ICHR and The New Dilutions and read for your self. I was there researching pedigrees and saving pictures of as many pearl horses we could find when some Iberian breeders were telling the ICHR that Dr Sponenberg or UC Davis told them their pearl horses where champagne. ICHR members were threatened with everything from lawsuits to worse when they were refused registration of their pearl horses as champagnes. After all they had a note from Dr Sponenberg or UC Davis proving their pearl horses were champagne. And no I am not who ACC is talking about as I have only told what can be backed by the archives of 2 lists that dedicated countless hours to finding this gene. Also I do not consider it embellishment if it is true and the truth of who “discovered” the pearl gene is in the archives of the ICHR and the New Dilutions so if you want that side of the story go read.
Here are just a few dates we were discussing pearl.

June 12, 2003 a discussion about Majodero and it is suggested there might be a correlation to the color in the Barlinks and the color in the Iberians.
April 14 2004 New Dilutions break off ICHR as Carolyn decides she has enough to worry about with Champagnes. Barb Kostelnik starts the New Dilutions Yahoo group.
September of 2004 The ICHR/New Dilutions was calling the Iberian horses Pearl, the Barlink paints were Barlinks. Opal was suggested for Barlinks but vetoed by Carolyn as APHA already called them Barlink at that point.
April 26 2006 ICHR discussion on Barlink and cream both being on chromosome 21
Oct 5 2006 UC Davis announce their Apricot test yes Apricot was the first name and there are many posts and emails begging it to be changed. The link below was cut from a Oct 5 2006 post on the ICHR read what it says. Click on it and see where it takes you.
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/coat..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oct 5 2006 posts about CS name being given credit for her work on the “Apricot test” and yes it was called Apricot on the UC Davis site.
Oct 13 2006 telling how one ICHR member and one new dilution member drove to Los Angeles and pull the hair on Guindaleza R to have UC Davis test it to see if they were the same gene.
Oct 16 2006 about UC Davis now calling it Apricot/Pearl.

No one is trying to steal UC Davis thunder or claim they did not develop the test and work hard doing it but so did a lot of other people. And there is a lot of documentation proving this. So please think and research before you decide to belittle a group of people that spent countless hours doing research and documenting horses that in many cases did not even relate to the horses we were interested in except that people claimed they were what we knew they were not. I know when history is written the one with the most marbles wins but at this point there is still enough documentation on a couple of Yahoo groups to prove The ICHR and New Dilutions role in the discovery and documentation of the pearl gene so I think it is still a bit premature to try to rewrite the history of Pearl. As of today much documentation still exists to show the time frame of pearl and who was doing/saying what. If you want to see the other side do what I said join the ICHR and the New Dilutions and READ the history of pearl or go back in the archives of this forum and read what was said when someone on May 3 2009 called to the attention OF THIS FORUM (SEE THE Pearl thread) that Carolyn theorized a pearl cream will only pass on one or the other. She was slammed by some as not knowing what she was talking about. But now this forum is giving credit to UC Davis for saying that a cream pearl will only pass one or the other when they spent 4 YEARS denying this fact.

Danni
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Re: Barlink factor?

I'm confused! I never knew UCDavis claimed they did all the work, although I knew what Carolyn etc.. were doing, so thought that part was a given I guess? I assumed there was another story again?? :?

horsegen
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Re: Barlink factor?

I'm also confused...as far as I'm aware, UC Davis never said that they did "all the work" on pearl, and neither did I in my previous posts. ALL I said was that UC Davis discovered the mutation that caused it. That's all. We didn't even know it was pearl when we first discovered it--we thought it was something separate (The Barlink Factor). It was through discussions with Carolyn Shepard and her group that made us think that maybe BF and pearl were the same thing. And yes, it then took a little bit of time to do the testing required to figure it out (about a week to get samples in and test both those and some we already had).

As far as I'm aware, no one is trying to steal UC Davis' thunder (although I have no idea what story ACC has heard), and I'm certainly not trying to steal ICHR's thunder. I'm a little baffled as to the defensiveness going on with this thread. I NEVER said that UC Davis "discovered pearl". Only that they discovered the mutation. If there is some confusion as to anything I posted, please let me know. Otherwise, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. But obviously there's something in my previous post that is rubbing people the wrong way, so I can go ahead and delete it so it isn't part of the permanent record or anything. I apologize for whatever was in it that people feel is inaccurate.

Third Peppermint
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Re: Barlink factor?

I was never under the impression that UCDavis was claiming to have done everything. The only idea I got was that the mutation that caused the gene was discovered at UCDavis and then the connection between the "Barlink" factor and pearl was later tested and discovered. I am just as puzzled by this since I had been watching the research on that gene since before there was a test or any official announcement of discovery.

As far as I can tell New Dilutions and all those people realized there was something going on. UCDavis ran the scientific tests to prove that New Dilutions was right. That's it. I don't think anyone said UCDavis did it all, there was only a suggestion that there was another story going around.

Where does the confusion come from?

rodeoratdogs
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Re: Barlink factor?

ymwhisle Hi, didn't mean to open up a big ol can of worms, but I Studied Annies pedigree back on allbreeds and had one more question. There is some interesting color descriptions on some of the horses behind Barlink Macho Man and I am wondering does anyone know why he carried pearl and where it may have come from? I mean obviously our Paints, QH's and Appaloosa's have Spanish horses way back there, but has pearl only been found in the progeny of Barlink Macho Man, or has there been other Paint and QH's found that carry it?

peruvianpasogal
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Re: Barlink factor?

His grand dam My Tontime carried the gene.

rodeoratdogs
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Re: Barlink factor?

That was the one I was thinking of that had the interesting color discription,does anyone know of she got it from her sire or dams side? I am still wondering about if there was other carriers found in either APHA, AQHA or Aphc?

Monsterpony
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Re: Barlink factor?

Given that it is a recessive mutation, there is no way to say that it is only in the Barlink/My Tontime line without testing a very large portion of the population.

.

rodeoratdogs
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Re: Barlink factor?

So in other words the Barlink/Tontime line is the only one we know of. I would be surprized if there wasn't any others, but wonder why they haven't popped up. I would love to see a picture of My Tontime, her description of her color on allbreedpedigree info sounds really interesting. Her description also says she was an outstanding cutting horse, I find it hard to imagine there wouldn't be any photos of her anywhere.

peruvianpasogal
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Re: Barlink factor?

It is possible the mutation starts with My Tontime kinda like HYPP started with Impressive.

RiddleMeThis
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Re: Barlink factor?

It is possible the mutation starts with My Tontime kinda like HYPP started with Impressive.

I would think thats possible if there weren't horses in other breeds that have the same mutation. It's possible that it mutated twice, but I think that the start is just further back than My Tontime.

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peruvianpasogal
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Re: Barlink factor?

Your right, it probably got into the breed the same way champagne and silver got into the stock horse breeds.

champagneqh
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Re: Barlink factor?

Here are 2 pictures of My Tontime
[attachment=1]My Tontime.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]My Tontime-PHJ.jpg[/attachment]

rodeoratdogs
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Re: Barlink factor?

Awesome thanks!!!! :bounce. Looks as if she carried splash as well. Do you mind if I copy that and add it to her pedigree on allbreed? I have a membership for allbreed so I like to ad as many photos as possible, so if any of you that have pics of your horses that you would like me to ad just pm me or email them to me at rodeoratdogs@yahoo.com and I would be glad to :flower .

accphotography
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Re: Barlink factor?

Oh yes, that family is definitely splash as well. She looks normally colored to me.

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champagneqh
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Re: Barlink factor?

Alicia
The photos are not mine I just collected one while researching pedigrees and the other was published in The Paint Horse Journal. I have often wondered why no pictures of her were posted with her pedigree on all breed. I agree with ACC she looks pretty normal colored to me.

rodeoratdogs
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Re: Barlink factor?

Alicia
The photos are not mine I just collected one while researching pedigrees and the other was published in The Paint Horse Journal. I have often wondered why no pictures of her were posted with her pedigree on all breed. I agree with ACC she looks pretty normal colored to me.

Did you see the discription on allbreed of her color? Maybe in person her color looked different than in the pictures. The second picture does look more irridecsent but nothing really that different I agree. I'm temted to just copy that second pic and post it to allbreed but is that a no no? :roll: although I'm not sure who would care. All the other horse pics I have posted on allbreed are either mine or sent to me by the horses owners.

accphotography
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Re: Barlink factor?

I would host it on photobucket or something and put in the info that it's courtesy of Simmelink Ranch. But that's me.

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Re: Barlink factor?

Yeah could do that, except it seems all the photos from photo bucket dont seem to be showing up on allbreed even the ones I have tried to upload. All that you see a little red x anymore, I'm not sure what that is, but I will try. When I do post pics I have just uploaded them right from my computer, but I will give the photobucket another try for this one.

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