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Appy Spots

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TheRedHayflinger
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Appy Spots
So...I've decided I want to learn what some patterns would be called...waiting on a friend to e mail me some pics of certain CHR's she has, but I do have one that I've seen on another forum I go to that I was curious about....at first glance I thought it was a leopard...but it's not is it? IMAGE(http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=571&pictureid=6603) IMAGE(http://www.baywindfarm.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=571&pictureid=6610) and...as these are coming off of a personal site and not a forum....this is leopard, right? Is there anything else with it? http://www.sawyercreek.com/frontared.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.sawyercreek.com/rearred.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and as a baby--he was an ET baby so the paint mare was only his "carrier" mom...not his biological one http://www.sawyercreek.com/images/pcoltmomb.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I have some other ones I'm totally not sure what they are..but again, waiting for my friend to send them to me.
RiddleMeThis
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Re: Appy Spots

The first one looks like a blanket with varnish rather than a true leopard.

The second horse looks like a true leopard.

The third Im not sure. I would cal it a leopard.

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TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appy Spots

the three links are of the same horse--as a foal, and two as an adult.

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appy Spots

slowly uploading some more. We'll call this one Horse Three, just for the sake of this thread and I will be posting others

IMAGE(http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz160/Factions/Jake2009.jpg)

and Horse Four....color? pattern?

IMAGE(http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz160/Factions/Flyte2009.jpg)

Horse Five: Pattern?

IMAGE(http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz160/Factions/Morg.jpg)

CMhorses
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Re: Appy Spots

I think horse three is a snowcap.

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Apple
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Re: Appy Spots

I am thinking Snowcap too, but that lacing down around the legs and shoulders, would that play a part in the Snowcap or more like just a blanket

nerd
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Re: Appy Spots

Oy. I know this isn't helpful, but I don't understand appy patterns AT ALL and I admire your courage for trying to figure them out.

accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

1: Black with large blanket and varnish.

2: Chestnut leopard or very near leopard.

3: Chestnut with off chance of palomino snowcap.

4: Bay with very small blanket and varnish.

5: Bay with very large blanket and roaning.

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TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appy Spots

so is it the LP on horse Four that makes her legs look all faded and reddish and not the normal blackish look bays normally have? same with the mane/tail(i can see black hairs in there, just most are white..lol)

what makes horse three a possible very near leopard?

is this a better example of leopard?
http://www.equi-passions.com/Races/Loisi..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

Horse three is a snowcap. You lost me?

Yup it's the LP changing the legs, mane and tail of horse four.

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PamelaTX
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Re: Appy Spots

ACC I think she just read it wrong as you sadi #2 was leopard or near leopard.
He's very much a leopard & AWESOME!!
Sawyer Creek has some AWESOME appys!!

http://www.sawyercreek.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Although I don't know about these being leopards...
http://www.sawyercreek.com/images/hannaf..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sawyercreek.com/images/abby20..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most definite leopards...
http://www.sawyercreek.com/images/megore..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I like this fewspot... :love
http://www.sawyercreek.com/images/ebonyf..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CMhorses
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Re: Appy Spots


Although I don't know about these being leopards...
http://www.sawyercreek.com/images/hannaf..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sawyercreek.com/images/abby20..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think those are near leopards


I like this fewspot...
:love
http://www.sawyercreek.com/images/ebonyf..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is that really a few spot? I thought they were nearly all white,but I don't know much about appys.

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accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

That horse IS nearly all white. The dark areas in the armpits, stifles, knees and hocks is normal for a fewspot foal.

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Apple
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Re: Appy Spots

So what is it that makes Horse #3 a snowcap and Horse #5 not a snowcap...is it the amount of spotting or lack there of in the white; or the way that "blanket is running up the neck on #5. Boy i hope that made sense it did in my brain.

CMhorses
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Re: Appy Spots

Ah ok, I didn't know they had any dark areas like that at all.

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accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

So what is it that makes Horse #3 a snowcap and Horse #5 not a snowcap...is it the amount of spotting or lack there of in the white; or the way that "blanket is running up the neck on #5. Boy i hope that made sense it did in my brain.

The lack of spots. A snow cap should not have spots (or very few). Also the edges of the cap have that odd lacy look that snowcaps usually have.

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TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appy Spots

gah..i typed wrong in my last post..i meant horse Two, not horse three. Was rushing out the door to go look at puppies with my mom and aunt when I replied...lol

I love the Sawyer Creek appys...I was able to meet Hi Tech Cowboy at Equine Affaire here in OH a year or two before he died...such a polite stallion too.

another question and I don't have the picture to back it up....but was told false fewspot when I asked someone else about it. I found an appy foal for sale somewhere and he was out of a QH dam with a fairly generous blaze and some white on her legs. He was by an appy with just some hip spotting and maybe a narrow blaze and a sock or two...the foal looked solid white, a bit of dark around the ears and eyes and armpits and a spot or two on his barrel, rump and shoulders. What causes that to happen?

accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

Horse two isn't quite "nose to toes" (he has dark ont he underlinke of his neck, at his elbow and some on his head). I'd call it leopard, but a purist might not.

What you are describing definitely sounds like a fewspot. The reason someone would say "false fewspot" in that case is because an AQHA dam shouldn't have an LP gene to contribute which would be necessary to have a true fewspot foal. However there are some AQHAs that carry LP and this could have been one of those cases. It depends. It may have just been a leopard who just happened to not have many spots (doesn't sound like it to me though). I would have loved to see a pic.

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CMhorses
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Re: Appy Spots

Appaloosas are so interesting. I'm trying to get this straight so... a leopard is 1 appy gene and a fewspot is 2? and then I think the same happens with blanket and snowcap but I don't remember which is heterozygous and which is homozygous. Also which PATN gene is for which patterns?

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accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

There are two genes that make up appy patterns, LP and PATN. LP alone causes merely characteristics and possibly roaning (which when they roan some spots may appear that have been there all along but had no contrast against their same colored body, the roaning highlights them as the spots don't roan). PATN causes the white pattern the spots appear on. PATN without an LP gene is invisible though. LP and PATN combined causes your standard patterns. LPlp + PATN1 = leopard. LPLP + PATN1 = fewspot. LPlp + PATN2 = blanket. LPLP + PATN2 = snowcap. LPlp + patnpatn = characteristics. LPLP + patnpatn = roan.

"LPLP + patnpatn = roan." is a theory. Horses who are not LPLP can roan as well obviously. Some LPlp horses roan and some do not. It is theorized that an LPLP WILL always roan.

Also it is not really known (I'm sure it's theorized but I don't know what the theory is) what happens when a horse is LPlp + PATN1PATN2 and other combinations of both PATNs.

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CMhorses
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Re: Appy Spots

So are you saying a Lplp only horse will have characteristics, such as the scelera and striped hooves and mottled skin and could possibly roan, while a LpLp horse will be 'varnish roan' and also have the characteristics?
I can definately see how they get 'random' appaloosas out of solids, one has a Lp, one has a PATN-so both could be 'invisible'; breed them together and bam...appaloosa!

Also it is not really known (I'm sure it's theorized but I don't know what the theory is) what happens when a horse is LPlp + PATN1PATN2 and other combinations of both PATNs.

To me that sounds like the horses that are near leopards;with the dark heads,legs and sometimes neck/shoulder.

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accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

Yup except that the LPlp only could also be varnish roan.

Yup that's exactly how appaloosa "cropouts" happen.

Hmmm interesting theory and would imply codominance between the two PATNs.

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CMhorses
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Re: Appy Spots

That just seemed like the easiest connection to make, at least to me. I think it was horse 4? That looks similar to what I just said.

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TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appy Spots

casually went browsing (this computer runs slow....desktop at home is much quicker) for fewspot or snowcap looking foals with solid looking dams...

thought this might be one, but was totally unsure on the foal...and the more I look at it, the mare might have spots on her rump....so hard to tell though *squints*
http://www.confettifarms.com/Stormy1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and then on this one...can't see the dam very well, if that is even her hiney in the picture, and I don't know if she is AQHA or ApHC(or another spotted registery) or some other breed: dam is Just Zip To Dee Bar
http://www.confettifarms.com/P1010156.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm going to check my links and stuff to see if i did save that original one I was talking about.

also...what pattern would this foal be:
http://www.confettifarms.com/P10102791.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and this one:
http://www.confettifarms.com/P1010260.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
looks like a snowcap fighting it out with a fewspot...lol

would this one be a hip blanket?
http://www.confettifarms.com/tymeshow.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and lastly, for now:
will this filly stay that dark? LOL
http://www.dominofarm.com/Ziggaboo2005Fo..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appy Spots

casually went browsing (this computer runs slow....desktop at home is much quicker) for fewspot or snowcap looking foals with solid looking dams...

thought this might be one, but was totally unsure on the foal...and the more I look at it, the mare might have spots on her rump....so hard to tell though *squints*
http://www.confettifarms.com/Stormy1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

did some digging and found a page with that mare on it elsewhere on that site..she is ApHC, reg name Shades of Style. But that is the only pic I'm seeing of her.

accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

The first dam does appear to have spots.

The second dam is AQHA and *should* not have LP. That foal really looks more like it's advanced roan than a fewspot to me though. It doesn't have that white white appearance.

Third is a very large blanket with lightning marks.

Fourth "near fewspot".

Fifth, yup hip blanket.

6th, I doubt it. I've not seen many fewspots keep those dark marks. Sometimes they're visible but very roaned, other times you can't see them at all.

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TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appy Spots

okay...more questions.
does snowcap work the same as fewspot...meaning you should have two parents with the LP and PATN and all that to get one.

next.
is this foal considered a snowcap?
http://www.raisingkainranch.com/images/s..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

he is by an appaloosa(QAR Mega Classic) and out of an AQHA mare(Justa Lucky Redbug)

Monsterpony
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Re: Appy Spots

Yes, snowcap and fewspot are both LpLp and require both parents to carry at least one Lp.

.

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appy Spots

okay..so that foal in my last post...is he a snowcap or something else?
and if he is a snowcap...how? since his dam is AQHA

here is the foals pedigree
http://palisadesapps.homestead.com/files..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

he was a 2004 foal.

accphotography
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Re: Appy Spots

Yes both parents must have LP and at least one must have a PATN gene to get either a fewspot or a snowcap.

Yes that foal looks very much like a snowcap to me. Either the dam is hiding LP or this is the true "false snowcap". Diane would have to explain how a false snowcap comes about (in theory) as I haven't a clue.

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CMhorses
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Re: Appy Spots

I'm still a little confused...so PATN1&2 are only heterozygous? So then you could possibly get a varnish out of a LpLp PATN LpLp PATN breeding? I remember reading that fewspots and snowcaps always produce color,but that dosn't necessarily mean blanket,snowcap,leopard or fewspot;it could end up varnish right?

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