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Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

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appycowgirl64
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Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame
I just wanted to let everyone know that I have a registered Appaloosa mare who has tested OLWS O/n and she has very minimally expressed it from what I have been told, because of the Star on her forehead. It came from her QH sire, Short and Final ,as he was tested and is OLWS O/n and he has very minimal white expression and just about has the same star as my mare. I have attached pics of this filly. When I was talking to Short and Final's owner last summer, she told me that she had him tested for frame because he had thrown blue eyes and some foals with small patches. It was the same year that my filly Shorty was born that he threw a loud crop out foal. What I am wondering is if anyone might be familiar with his ancestors in his pedigree and they might know which line that the frame came through on plus I would be interested to hear comments from folks on what would be giveaways that he has frame. At this point of time my plans are to just breed her to my stud once she gets older and has proven herself but I want to also know the giveaways so when I am maybe looking at other stallions, I can have an idea if they might carry frame and ask the owner to test if they already haven't yet. Here is the link to her sire's page: http://www.2bcuttinghorses.com/shorty.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Here is the link to my mare's pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/short+but+sassy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Loretta
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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Here is the fourth pic on my mare, Short But Sassy.

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

It's not unusual for frame to present in just blue eyes or the tiniest of white which is why it is so dangerous because you can then accidently breed 2 together and produce a dead foal.

appycowgirl64
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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

That does have me even more concerned in some ways. Even though I am pretty sure that my stud doesn't carry it, I think I'll have him tested just to be extra safe. I know he definitely has splash because he has thrown foals with one blue eye and given them the wide snips as well. Sabino that one I am not 100% for sure on because he does have some socks that are a little jagged and he has a couple of foals to his credit that have belly spots.
Humm, never think of the saying of safe sex in the horse world, lol!

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

rodeoratdogs
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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

That doesn't surprize me at all and I would say it came from the bottom side Wiescamp breeding, which IMO is great breeding, frame or no frame.

Maigray
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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Nice mare!

appycowgirl64
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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Well now that has me more concerned in some ways because all of my horses run back into Wiescamp breeding. I love the Wiescamp bred horses as well because to me they just make the best all around horses. I'm thinking I might just test everyone even though I know her sire was O/n and I assume that is where it came from, but it never hurts to be sure.

As far as you not being suprised, I wish that you could educate a lot of these App folks that are suprised and never thought it could happen. I am sure there are more Apps with this gene then what is known.

Thanks on the compliment. I love this filly. She is an awesome horse and extremely cowy. She'll put up with beginners who have never ridden and even though she might have 100 rides on her, I can let her set and saddle her up and I have the same horse that I rode the last time.
Loretta

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

I really like the Wiescamp horses too,( I just got a hard signed #'d hardback copy of the Weiscamp story from Frank Holmes) and I like Appy's with QH bloodlines and frame it's in there. I think it's always just best to test. One of my favorite Appy lines is from this mare who was controversial because of her markings.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/plaudette" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really like your stallion too, I love Grullas, I bet he carries at least splash along with his nice appy blanket.

....I meant to ad that your filly's dam looks like she's splash as well, she is marked similar to my red dun slpash/sabino paint mare.

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

oh she is lovley!

Rodeo where can others get a copy of the book? :)

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

oh she is lovley!

Rodeo where can others get a copy of the book? :)

He posted he had some extra in his office on the allbreed forum, let me email him a see if he has some more:)

appycowgirl64
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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Ya Frank was suppose to hand deliver one of those to my house last year when he was going up to Laramie, WY to do some research on someone whose name slips my mind at the moment. Then he emailed me back and said his Leo book was taking longer then expected and it would be later on before he got up there. I really need to call him because I really want one of those books as well.
Thanks on my stud. I love grulla as well and my one chestnut mare will throw all black based from him but won't throw grulla. Her two daughters who are red dun are both homozygous for agouti so my hope is washed out there. I now have another red dun mare that is a half sister to those two mares and she will be bred to him this spring and here shortly I'll have her tested for agouti. That was the thing with this bay filly is that she is black based and heterozygous for agouti so she could have a good chance on throwing grulla from him but I am trying to figure out how to handle the foals that will come from her. I know I'll have them tested and I will probably geld the carrier studs. I just want people to know what they are getting into with her foals because this is a line in the Apps that with management can be traced. I wonder what the geneticist thought when they were running a test for frame on an App. They'll probably really think I flipped my lid when I request for everyone else but at least I'll know exactly what I have. The joys of testing :).
Yes my stud does have splash as he has had foals with blue eyes and he has produced two foals with belly spots as well. One of the foals the ApHC took away her papers as this was before they changed their rules on registering too much white. I am suprised that you think on Shorty's dam that she has splash as well as I was thinking all sabino instead but I'm still learning.

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Also, Rodeo, my stud does trace to Plaudette through Bright Eyes Brother. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dial+a+c..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

My Paint mare also traces back to plaudette, this is her pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bdb+fash..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , she is red dun, negative for LWO and negative for agouti, so I hope to find a nice HZ black grulla QH stud to breed her to, I have one I like and he is HZ dun and black but he is Aa. Soooo I would atleast have a %50 chance of getting Grulla with him but I'm still looking.
I figured you stallion did trace back to her, I love Maddons Bright eyes, my mare does that weird stare that she did, like she can see somthing that we can't.

The reason I think your filly's dam is splash is that high white sock she has in the front.

So you know Frank?? he is like my hero, I could care less about Brad Pitt or Orlando Bloom......lol, my husband is cuter then them anyway :lol: .
Frank complimented me on my mare and that meant everything to me.

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

I don't think the geneticists will say anything about testing for frame in appys. Frame is a known gene in appys, QHs and any other stockhorse breed out there (whether the breeders are willing to acknowledge it or not) so it is really only being responsible to test your horses.

.

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Also, Rodeo, my stud does trace to Plaudette through Bright Eyes Brother. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dial+a+c..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh wow I really like your stallion's pedigee alot, everything on there is great. To bad I don't have a QH mare ymwhisle .

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Rodeo, I have the perfect place for you and I know some of their studs are homozygous black if I remember right along with being homozygous dun. They are some really nice looking studs and you might like the bloodlines as well. Here is their link: http://shiningc.webs.com/ourstallions.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They are friends of mine on FB and that is why I knew about them. Your grulla will be waiting for you especially if you mare is negative for agouti.

Actually I have yet to meet Frank in person yet but I am like you in that he is high on my list of people to meet and I was so looking forward to that visit. Hopefully it will happen one of these days.

That is the thing with my stud he doesn't have top of the industry line bloodlines but he does have some of the nice solid using horse lines and I like it as well. Right now with like this mare here and the stud her dam is currently bred to, I'll be getting some of those lines to breed back into him. I have my mare bred to a cremello gandson of Peptoboonsmal.

At this point some of those top of the industry App bloodlines I am glad I don't have as I have been finding out that Maids Dream, Dreamfinder and Goer bloodlines are having PSSM positive horses, especially the Maids Dream horses. I know of too many positive horses that trace to him. Also, along with another FB friend of mine we are thinking it all traces to Three Bars because I had some tell me they knew of positve horses from The Invester and another lady had an App gelding that traced to Zippo Pine Bar and both those studs are sired by Zippo Pat Bars which is sired by Three Bars.

Monsterpony, I wish that would sink into people's heads but a lot of folks are stuck on that this is a paint or pinto thing and that if your horse has this gene well he must be paint or pinto.

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Thanks Loretta, I like the LADIES SMOKY DUDE stud, he's 94% foundation and he has Seabiscuit :ymsmug: , that's kinda neat. My mare is aa, so yeah I would have 100% chance of grulla and she is also dun so I would also have 50% chance of HZ dun.

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Rodeo, I was looking at the other pics of you mare and she is a really nice put together mare. I especially love the blaze on her face and how it runs off of her, especially on her left side. She ought to cross really nice on the grulla studs that I posted their website.

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Thank you :flower Wouldn't it be cool if I got a Grulla that had her unusual face markings?

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

It would vanish into the night never to be heard from again... ;)

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

And it would NOT be Lacys new pasture mate!! LOL

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Nope, cuz it would vanish to Az ;)

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Rodeo, that Ladys Smokey Dude if I remembering the correc is homozygous dun.

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Yep, I looked and he is EE/aa/DD.
It would be way cool. Can't wait to see your grulla foal next year. ;)

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

LOL you guys are funny ;)

Yes I saw that too Loretta, so it would be 100% Grulla and 50% chance of HZ dun since she is dun as well, no gamble there.
Not that I would care that much since the foal would be a Grulla, but I saw the stud has a couple of white socks, I wonder how much white would actually express??? White seems to express more on red, but maybe with him haveing some white and her white patterns, hmmmmm I wonder, anybody else have any thoughts on that?

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Base color does not appear to limit splash as much as it does other genes.

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Re: Appaloosa who has tested positive for frame

Rodeo, sorry on that. Went back and reread your one post and I guess it would help if I wouldn't be reading posts at 3 am because I'm up anyways at work and half asleep. Then the fine print of a smart phone doesn't help as well. I learned my lesson years ago when I helped a friend at work design a barn and at 3 am I was trying to put his material order together. Needless to say I missed figuring in some tin that was in the middle of the peak of the barn. Not good since it kind of brought that side of the barn to a screaching halt until we got the piece of time. Fotunately it was a color the lumber company normally stocked and they had the length that we needed.

LL Appaloosas Loretta Grosset Standing: Dial A Challenge Grulla Appaloosa reining stallion, FPD registered ApHC Nat'l and Res. World Champion Sire, ROM and Bronze Medallion Sire PSSM1 n/n, GBED n/n, HERDA n/n, OLWS n/n Splash White - SW1 n/SW1, SW

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