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Appaloosa pattern?

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Andrea
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Appaloosa pattern?
IMAGE(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m26/gsagain/NewImage.jpg) This is the barn owner's mare. We know she's chestnut and carries agouti. I've no clue on appy patterns, so we're asking for help... She's had two foals. Chestnut and bay. Both had blankets and random white spots on ears and shoulders. The Bay was starting to varnish before he left and the filly died too young to tell if she would. The sire was a chestnut that started copper penny red, but the older picture, he looked palamino. Does that mean he was a varnish as well? Will the varnish eventually turn the horse white? I think fewspot appys always throw a blanket/spotting? Does a varnish always varnish? If she's bred to a non-appy would the baby varnish?
lipigirl
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

OK I am guessing now but I would have said either varnish or snowcap extended blanket ??!! :?

accphotography
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Agree with Lipi, and that does not look chestnut to me.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Andrea
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Is snowcap the same as varnish?

She's out of a palomino and a chestnut... She looks even less like a palomino... LOL.

So if she's bred to a non-appy, what are the chances the baby will be snowcap? Is it just 50/50?

accphotography
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Snowcap and varnish are unrelated (IMO). If she's bred to a non appy the most she would produce is a blanket (or leopard, but small chance IMO).

I wonder if the "chestnut" parent looked like her.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Andrea
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

I did see the foal picture of the chestnut stallion and he was copper penny red. Couldn't even mistake it for black.

Her foal out of a black stallion resulted in a bay foal. So I'm pretty sure that leaves chestnut with agouti. Right?

Andrea
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

He was this color:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, the picture was taken on my phone, so her tail isn't as dark as it looks. She actually is a very ew color. Like a cross of grey and brown...

Andrea
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

She's this color, almost exactly: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http..." onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think this horse could be a brother. LOL. Ew.

accphotography
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Hmmm, maybe it is the pic then. I wish they'd upgrade the cameras they put in phones. LOL

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

TheRedHayflinger
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

I worked with an appy that base color (but she was a solid--she did have a big ol' blaze and a sock though)...from a distance she looked bay..up close she was very liver chestnut looking. She was a headcase, fun, but still a headcase. Both her parents were the sanest animals alive too..haha

Monsterpony
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Is snowcap the same as varnish?

She's out of a palomino and a chestnut... She looks even less like a palomino... LOL.

So if she's bred to a non-appy, what are the chances the baby will be snowcap? Is it just 50/50?

A snow-cap is the homozygous version of a blanket. When an appy carries two copies of the Lp allele, then they will have a white pattern without the spots in the pattern. That means that she will always throw an Lp allele when bred. What size the pattern will be depends on what sort of white factor (PATN) genes that both she and the sire carry. Lp allows for the pattern to show up, the PATN determines the size of the pattern present.

.

Andrea
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Thanks Monster! That was very helpful!
So is this mare snowcap or varnish?
What's the difference and how do you tell?

accphotography
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Likely both. Varnish is roaning, snowcap is a pattern. Varnish wouldn't have any large areas of pink skin like this does. This is either snowcap or a blanket without spots. She does appear to be varnishing in addition though.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Andrea
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

So are snowcaps born with the large blanket?
I've no idea what this mare looked like as a foal. I'll ask.

Thanks again for the patience!

Monsterpony
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

They can be born that big or can extend through varnishing. Just like some horses are born with a spotted blanket and can varnish out to a leopard appearance or they can be born a full leopard. My horse, Tony, had a snowcap that covered his rump and was otherwise solid (ie-no varnish) as a foal. By the time I got him, at age 22, he almost completely varnished out.

.

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

One thing to remember about Lp, it funkifies black, so there's a very good chance this mare is black...on the other hand, our bay fewspot/snowcap mare is bay and darker (where she had colour), and her daughter is probably bay, and is darker in colour.

The pattern could be snowcap with varnish, but she also has a blaze, which could be making for a false snowcap (sabino, etc., seem to have a "push" effect on Lp and helps make/extend the white expression). She does have lightening/flash marks on her legs (the white splashes), which seems to only occur with blankets, so she's got some sort of blanket pattern.

Diane

lipigirl
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Thanks am learning more about the illusive LP which helps as I am trying to sell this little chap for a friend who is a genuine snowcap -

IMAGE(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g139/Lipigirl/horses%20for%20sale/Apache5.jpg)

IMAGE(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g139/Lipigirl/horses%20for%20sale/Apache2.jpg)

cute isn't he and going for a Song !!!

rabbitsfizz
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Diane she cannot be Black if she is Palomino X Chestnut......

I see an extended Snowcap with Sabino and some Varnish, but Varnish extends with age, so yes, unless the roaning is, of course, caused by the Sabino (and I would test her for LWO just to be absolutely safe) then the roaning will extend with age but you will not necessarily end up with a white horse, horses roan out at different speeds.

website: please come and visit... http://www.shadowplayminihorses.co.uk/

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

That's working on the assumption that the parents' colours are right ;)

<~~~~ducks back to beginning of thread to double check if parent photos were there....there WAS a reason why I mentioned funkified black, but the last episode of Lost is on, and the brain is somewhat singularly focused!

Okay, back for another quick take...I mentioned black because appy colours are probably some of the worst for being misidentified. Having a "black"-registered bay and a "bay"-registered black sort of helps me in that thinking .

I did note that the OP says that they know the mare is chestnut, but no mention of colour testing, so is this knowledge based on solely on the supposed colour of the parents of the mare?

Diane

accphotography
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

That's what she said when I asked the same question Diane.

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Andrea
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

I see what you're saying about the testing, but...

She's had a bay colt by a black stallion. If she were black, that would be impossible?

The colt was a typical bay color with white spots on his butt.

accphotography
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

Nope, but that doesn't preclude her from being bay.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Appaloosa pattern?

What ACC said. Lp can (and does) make for some really weird things with base colour. Our stallion was so chocolate at birth, bay is the only colour, without testing, that made sense. Princess and her mother are both very "black" looking (dam is tested bay, and because I want Princess to be black, I know she's bay. LOL). In fact, Princess was jet-black at birth, and then "developed" caramel colouring on her flanks, which is now back to looking charcoal.

Diane

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