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Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

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equine_woman
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Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).
So Sterling (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sterling+request) is a registered characteristic appaloosa and most of the time it's all hidden behind gray hair. . but in the summer her hair thins enough that you can see how loudly patterned she is when she is wet! Decided to get some pics of her with her spots showing the other day. Appy people, what type of Appy gets more spots as they age? She didn't have but a few on her hind end when she was young and none of the belly white was there. IMAGE(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4929091123_9f441f1f0a_z.jpg) IMAGE(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4929085597_e7ca9db022_z.jpg) IMAGE(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/4929682386_596b9a16e2_z.jpg) and this is my girl when she isn't wet! IMAGE(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs133.snc1/5690_118304743268_673398268_2385394_904043_n.jpg) She's 22 this year And that's all I've got. lol Just think it's interesting how much gray can mask.
accphotography
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Do you have younger photos of her?

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

I do not think that is Appy showing, I think it is Sabino!
She may well be Appy, and she may well have had Appy spots as a youngster, but I do think what is showing now is Sabino.

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equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

I do have younger photos but they are just of her gray. . . she didn't have spots that showed through back then. Other than her face. I'll upload her yearling photo off of her papers tonight. (it's black and white photo) She has gotten white in spots where tack has touched her over the years, she has a white bridle line, whine under her girth area. She is very characteristic appaloosa as well. Sclera, stripped hooves, mottled skin. She's 1/2 Arabian though through the Crabbet lines. Do they do Sabino.

accphotography
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

I actually wondered if it was gray vitiligo.

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

I would guess a lot of that is due to gray.

.

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

i agree with ACC that's the first thing I thought of....no appy there.

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

To answer your question, pretty much ALL appaloosas can get more spots as they age, if Lp and Patn are there...Lp is ocnsidered a "roaning" sort of pattern, some "roan out " faster, some "roan out" slower than glaciers move. As to your mare, I'd need non-greyed out photos to make any sort of call on her "appy-ness"

Diane

equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

To answer your question, pretty much ALL appaloosas can get more spots as they age, if Lp and Patn are there...Lp is ocnsidered a "roaning" sort of pattern, some "roan out " faster, some "roan out" slower than glaciers move. As to your mare, I'd need non-greyed out photos to make any sort of call on her "appy-ness"

Diane

I see, and since she was greyed out before I bought her (and by the time she was 1) I don't have any of those!! lol She has the other standard characteristics of an ap, stripped hooves, mottled skin, sclera showing.

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Striped hooves on white legs can't be counted as an appy trait. From the last photo, looks like she's got 3 white socks, maybe 4 (right hind looks "iffy" for being solid coloured). Sclera can be caused by other genes, and grey can also 'create' mottled skin (well, at least the appearance) plus she's got the whole sabino thing going on as well (as evidenced by her blaze and chin) which can skew up using mottled skin as a trait.

I'm not saying she's not carrying Lp, I just can't pin anything down to "just" caused by Lp without pre-grey photos. Can you not contact her breeder to see if they have any foal photos?

Diane

equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Her breeder is elderly and has been out of horses for some time. This mare is 22 years old this year. It unlikely they have any. I know her dam was a characteristic Appaloosa based on her papers.

equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Don't know if it helps (probably doesn't) she was bred to a black stud, produced a gray mare with a black base. The mare didn't carry the Lp gene, but has one sclera eye, and when she was born she had one leg that had grey all up and down it without pink under it. . .weird color!

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Okay, now I'm a bit confused...when you say "characteristic based on her papers", are you saying that the mare has N before her registration name? If so, that means she does not have sufficient characteristics (i.e., visible mottled skin, striped hooves on solid-coloured legs, and/or sclera). If she was patterned or characteristics-only at registration, she'd have a # or CN (if she had been CPO'd) before her registration number. She's too young to be part of the "B" registrations of Breeding Stock.

Diane

equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Okay, now I'm a bit confused...when you say "characteristic based on her papers", are you saying that the mare has N before her registration name? If so, that means she does not have sufficient characteristics (i.e., visible mottled skin, striped hooves on solid-coloured legs, and/or sclera). If she was patterned or characteristics-only at registration, she'd have a # or CN (if she had been CPO'd) before her registration number. She's too young to be part of the "B" registrations of Breeding Stock.

Diane

No, she's registered with the designation # before her registration, indicating that she is a full ap and displays the characteritics associated with an ap.

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

I don't know where my post went - forgive me if you see it an I'm repeating - but I've been looking into arabian genetic vitiligo recently, and this would not be a typical presentation of it. It's supposed to be symmetrical. I haven't seen any examples or read of any that present to this degree or extent.... Not that it can't happen, but again I am only starting to look into this! My part arab has it under his mane - I will wet him down and get pics for that thread.

From one vet AT "Ask the Vet" : "Vitiligo is characterized by mainly symmetrically oriented circular or irregular areas of depigmentation on the skin of the lips, muzzle, and eyelids and occasionally around the anus, vulva, sheath, hooves, and general body areas. The depigmentation may vary in intensity and occasionally may spontaneously regain its color but it is usually permanent."

equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

It's an interesting idea but I don't think that's causing her loss of pigment. She's always had white spots on her skin, even when she was a youngster. Most of her pink spots aren't on her lips, muzzle, eyelids or anus, vulva, sheath or hooves. Just her general body area. But since she is an appy, I assume it's from the Lp gene.

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

It would seem the most likely explanation (appy)!

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

She is a registered Appaloosa, the breed, as opposed to the pattern??
I still do not think she has real characteristics, to be honest, I think she has Sabino and I think that is what is causing the sclera.
I have had mares with sclera, and spots for that matter, who were Welsh X Arab and no appy whatsoever, they had sclera had striped hooves (on white legs).
I am glad she has found such a good home with you though, she is looking good for her age.

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equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Yes, she is fully registered appaloosa, and had enough characteristics at registration age to be registered with the # in her number. She is 1/2 Arabian as well but with Appy papers. Her sire was an arabian that was crossed to many different types of mares for sport horses. From what I can tell he threw big boned, tall, Grey! 1/2 arabians out of almost every cross!

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Sabino could have caused characteristics to be present at birth.

MP has said vitiligo happens all over the body of some grays, but I'm not sure what it looks like in those cases.

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).
Okay, now I'm a bit confused...when you say "characteristic based on her papers", are you saying that the mare has N before her registration name? If so, that means she does not have sufficient characteristics (i.e., visible mottled skin, striped hooves on solid-coloured legs, and/or sclera). If she was patterned or characteristics-only at registration, she'd have a # or CN (if she had been CPO'd) before her registration number. She's too young to be part of the "B" registrations of Breeding Stock.

Diane

No, she's registered with the designation # before her registration, indicating that she is a full ap and displays the characteritics associated with an ap.

Ahh, okay, it is somewhat safe to presume that with her registration (probably as a foal) there were sufficient photos to show appy traits. I say somewhat safe because there have been issue about a grey that was hardshipped as having characteristics and no blanket, wherein someone states that they know for a fact that there is no possibility of this particular horse having appaloosa ancestry.

Diane

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

It's an interesting idea but I don't think that's causing her loss of pigment. She's always had white spots on her skin, even when she was a youngster. Most of her pink spots aren't on her lips, muzzle, eyelids or anus, vulva, sheath or hooves. Just her general body area. But since she is an appy, I assume it's from the Lp gene.

I've not heard of mottled skin (as we use to define the appy trait) being anywhere other than muzzle/lips, genitals, anus, eyes (not the lids, the area of flesh encircling the eye). The pink spots on her torso/neck would be where she would have had appy white if she didn't have grey (or roan out).

Your mare is yet another reason why we so desperately need the Lp test!

Diane

equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).
It's an interesting idea but I don't think that's causing her loss of pigment. She's always had white spots on her skin, even when she was a youngster. Most of her pink spots aren't on her lips, muzzle, eyelids or anus, vulva, sheath or hooves. Just her general body area. But since she is an appy, I assume it's from the Lp gene.

I've not heard of mottled skin (as we use to define the appy trait) being anywhere other than muzzle/lips, genitals, anus, eyes (not the lids, the area of flesh encircling the eye). The pink spots on her torso/neck would be where she would have had appy white if she didn't have grey (or roan out).

Your mare is yet another reason why we so desperately need the Lp test!

Diane

Yes, she would be a very loudly colored ap if she weren't Grey!! The only mottled skin she has is on her nose. I wish her daughter had been appy colored. . .that would have helped! But she's a solid (with one little eye that has sclera, just to tease me. . .)

equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).
Okay, now I'm a bit confused...when you say "characteristic based on her papers", are you saying that the mare has N before her registration name? If so, that means she does not have sufficient characteristics (i.e., visible mottled skin, striped hooves on solid-coloured legs, and/or sclera). If she was patterned or characteristics-only at registration, she'd have a # or CN (if she had been CPO'd) before her registration number. She's too young to be part of the "B" registrations of Breeding Stock.

Diane

No, she's registered with the designation # before her registration, indicating that she is a full ap and displays the characteritics associated with an ap.

Ahh, okay, it is somewhat safe to presume that with her registration (probably as a foal) there were sufficient photos to show appy traits. I say somewhat safe because there have been issue about a grey that was hardshipped as having characteristics and no blanket, wherein someone states that they know for a fact that there is no possibility of this particular horse having appaloosa ancestry.

Diane

Yes she definitely had appy characteristics even as a baby. And she definitely has appy parentage (on her dam's side). Here is a link to her pedigree (also in the first post) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sterling+request

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

In my opinion, she definitely has LP. I think she was born with a small blanket on her hips, then turned grey and her pattern disappeared. What you're seeing in those photos is her skin color, not the color of her hair. Oddly enough, skin color does not necessarily match the color pattern on an Appaloosa.

equine_woman
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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

In my opinion, she definitely has LP. I think she was born with a small blanket on her hips, then turned grey and her pattern disappeared. What you're seeing in those photos is her skin color, not the color of her hair. Oddly enough, skin color does not necessarily match the color pattern on an Appaloosa.

Hey AppyLady!! Glad to see you on here!! That's what I've always thought. And that's interesting that the white spots don't always match up with the pink skin. I tried to find her registration photo today but it's in my horse folder that has been filed somewhere safe. (so safe I can't find it lol)

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

I've not heard of mottled skin (as we use to define the appy trait) being anywhere other than muzzle/lips, genitals, anus, eyes (not the lids, the area of flesh encircling the eye). The pink spots on her torso/neck would be where she would have had appy white if she didn't have grey (or roan out).

Your mare is yet another reason why we so desperately need the Lp test!

Diane

I have pictures somewhere of an appy mare that has mottled skin all over her body and not a white hair on her.

.

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Hi EW! You know I think your horses are beautiful! Just wanted to add that she could have sabino as well as LP, and that might be confusing the issue. I've also seen the skin turn pink where the tack goes, especially the breast collar and cinch.

When I got the papers back on my palomino few-spot colt, the ApHC had called him a non-characteristic palomino! I figured they knew what a few-spot was, so I hadn't sent in close-ups of his characteristics. He had his neck shaved for an IV, and the skin was heavily mottled. I took pictures of that, and got his papers corrected.

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

http://www.seldomcreek.com/Skye.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; probably the neatest looking one I've seen with the mottled skin and no spots...lol

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

Hi EW! You know I think your horses are beautiful! Just wanted to add that she could have sabino as well as LP, and that might be confusing the issue. I've also seen the skin turn pink where the tack goes, especially the breast collar and cinch.

When I got the papers back on my palomino few-spot colt, the ApHC had called him a non-characteristic palomino! I figured they knew what a few-spot was, so I hadn't sent in close-ups of his characteristics. He had his neck shaved for an IV, and the skin was heavily mottled. I took pictures of that, and got his papers corrected.

I need to go shave Sonora! lol. I don't think she inherited the lp from Sterling though. She only has one eye with sclera and no mottled skin. . but a girl can dream!!!

And RedHayflinger, that is one cool looking ap you posted! His nose is the coolest!

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Re: Appaloosa color on a gray (wet gray).

it's actually a mare...a bashkir curly :)

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