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Another Patterns post (picture heavy)

accphotography Sun, 03/22/2009 - 18:36

Shetland? No sabino in Shetlands right? That hip spot is interesting then.

Personally I think frame is possible. The horizontal movement of the white on the left side is suspicious.

lillith Wed, 04/08/2009 - 05:12

Thats one of the few tobis I've ever seen that doesn't have any face white. (unless theres a star hiding under that forelock?) Most seem to have splah or sabino face markings.

Songcatcher Wed, 04/08/2009 - 05:52

[quote="lillith"]Thats one of the few tobis I've ever seen that doesn't have any face white. (unless theres a star hiding under that forelock?) Most seem to have splah or sabino face markings.[/quote]
Nothing other than a few interspersed white hairs.

[img]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/…]

Actually, I have two other Tobianos in my small herd with no face white. Personally, I prefer face white, but you can't always have everything.

rabbitsfizz Wed, 04/08/2009 - 11:14

I think it is generally accepted that Tobiano does not "carry" face white??
Even so, the Tobiano could well be suppressing successfully the Sabino he obviously has, and I would also say Splash too.
I would
[size=200][color=#FF0000]TEST FOR FRAME[/color][/size]
since you do not know his status.

accphotography Wed, 04/08/2009 - 14:26

It's just that the person who actually found the tobiano mutation believes it causes face white, and even that it tends to have *more* face white in it's homozygous state. Now I realize it is impossible to prove this because we can NOT say the horses did not have splash or some form of sabino, but that was just that researcher's opinion. I'm not sure if I think it does or not, but I find it interesting she wouldn't say "no it doesn't" and, in fact, said quite the opposite.

For that matter, the same things exists about frame's leg white. I'm on the fence on that one too. I've actually recently come to believe it will cause leg white in some instances. There is no way to prove it doesn't. There is some evidence that it seems to like to push white off, but IMO there is also some evidence it will put white on when it's in it's loudest expression.

Songcatcher Wed, 04/08/2009 - 17:09

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]I think it is generally accepted that Tobiano does not "carry" face white??
Even so, the Tobiano could well be suppressing successfully the Sabino he obviously has, and I would also say Splash too.
I would
[size=200][color=#FF0000]TEST FOR FRAME[/color][/size]
since you do not know his status.[/quote]
He has been tested and is LWO negative.

rabbitsfizz Fri, 04/10/2009 - 04:51

Brilliant, Freeland, I should have known you would do this.
ACC, IME, Frame reduces ..ie inhibits, leg white as it goes from full expression through to minimal, rather than actually causes it, so, again IME, Frame does not cause, but inhibits leg white, thus another pattern would have to be present to cause the leg whit.
Same with Tobiano, it inhibits white forward of the shoulder.
I have always found these rulings to make sense and I shall not throw them out because of one other person (who may well be a geneticist but might not actually have the [i]experience[/i] of patterns that I do, after all) [i]thinks[/i] might be the case!!
Same with Sabino and blue eyes, it may not be proven but I am happy, on the basis of experience, to accept the theory.

accphotography Fri, 04/10/2009 - 15:05

I will never agree that sabino causes blue eyes. You've got me on that one.

Tobiano I still think won't cause face white and I think can inhibit it... but it has been put out there that that MIGHT not be accurate.

I always believed frame didn't cause leg white, and in fact inhibited it... until recently. Since there is no proof either way I let the wind blow me, and the wind has blown me to thinking it can cause it sometimes.

NZ Appaloosas Fri, 04/10/2009 - 18:12

[quote="accphotography"]I will never agree that sabino causes blue eyes.
[/quote]

You and me both, ACC, otherwise there'd be a heck of a lot more blue-eyed horses in non-splash/non-frame carrying breeds.

Diane

Songcatcher Sat, 04/11/2009 - 09:02

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]Sorry, I may not have made myself clear...the theory is that Sabino does not cause blue eyes???
I had thought that was now a given??[/quote]
There are some that argue profusely that Sabino DOES cause blue eyes, including the Genetic Testing Laboratory in Florida. Personally, I disagree with them, unless Splash is found to be a type of Sabino.

accphotography Sat, 04/11/2009 - 11:42

[quote="Songcatcher"][quote="rabbitsfizz"]Sorry, I may not have made myself clear...the theory is that Sabino does not cause blue eyes???
I had thought that was now a given??[/quote]
There are some that argue profusely that Sabino DOES cause blue eyes, including the Genetic Testing Laboratory in Florida. Personally, I disagree with them, unless Splash is found to be a type of Sabino.[/quote]

Exactly.