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All purpose dog?

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Tianateke
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All purpose dog?
I am looking at Standard Schnauzers. I would like to get a pair in two years. Fizz'z thred has inspired me to investigate all sides of the breed/breeding. I want a working set, who's offspring could be pointed to tracking, scent descrimination, fetch/assistance dog, watchdog...depending on talent and temperment. What are common faults in the Standard? What are the differences between working lines and show lines? etc.
Heather
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Re: All purpose dog?

similar i met a russian terrier once , reminds me of a black schna... they were awesome! i loved the dog.

lipigirl
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Re: All purpose dog?

My friend used to have a pair of those and all I can say is that thier temprements can be very sharp so be careful.

Adell
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Re: All purpose dog?

I don't know if I have 'worked' with so many that I should say anything, but you asked, so here goes. I work at a dog grooming shop and the worst dogs we get in for fighting is unfixed male Schnauzers. Bitches are a bit better but still run to fighting everything they don't know (and things they do know). They seem high strung, but that could be because they are not being worked as they should be... I don't know. But we have had in over 50 schnauzers in the 6 months I have been working and there has been only TWO I liked. The one is a mini schnauzer bitch and she was just an all around delight. The other was a standard male (fixed) that also took to things nicely (almost, he thought he may want to bite us for the 1st half of his visit, but it was his first time at the groomers and he was not use to anything.... but he came around and even got wigg-aly when he was almost done). Odd but both came from a unhappy background.

I will say I could have this breed pegged wrong, there could be some very nice dogs out there that I just haven't have the peasure to meet.

lipigirl
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Re: All purpose dog?

Yes Adell that's is my point too - actually the best one I have met was a Giant bitch she was one of the loveliest dogs...but you have to watch the other ones!

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

I have limited contact with these dogs. So I thank you for your candid reply Adell. I have had not ever met a Standard, I have only experience with the others, one a Giant neutered male. He did very well with his training and was good with other dogs? I fostered him for 9 months. He was NOT good with cats, but was still ok with dogs smaller than cats.
And friends of my folks have two miniature neutered males. I loves them!

I do intend these to be working dogs, and closely screened for temperment before purchase. I have about two years to research the different temperments of different lines, so if you know the lineage of the dogs you have poor experience with could you PM them to me? Even the breed .com's say they must respect you from the get go and to be firm with them. Also that they were originally the Wirehaired Pinscher? Not liking strange dogs is actually a check mark for my list. We get loose dogs through here and have lost a few rabbits, and a duck. Part of the dogs duties would be guarding against these losses. And deterring the bear that passes through in the spring and again in the fall. :shock:

God will not give you more than He can bear

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: All purpose dog?

A friend of mine has a couple...an altered male and I believe a speyed bitch (yes on the bitch, not sure on the spey job). They are noisy, frenetic, constantly competing for dominance, and somewhat ditzy. These are definitely not 'show-bred', however, I do not know anything of their actual breeding. The male usually has to find a way to drape himself over my lap when I visit...I think it is his way of making up for barking at me like I'm a burgler when I show up at the door. Even tho' the dogs've known me for several years, it still takes them 10 minutes or more to calm down on the barking. My friend says that shows they like me...some people it can take more than an hour, and usually requires crating, to get them calm.

Diane

Krickette
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Re: All purpose dog?

My only experiance with one was when I was little a neighbor had one and it bit me.
I believe this is the breed that a family friend just got for her father. She flew down to Houston to get it from a good breeder...

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Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

Having my enthusiasm tempered somewhat enough to do some research and consider other breeds, I have been looking at the KERRY BLUE TERRIER

Similar size (boatable) but with a stronger herding heritage and also some water retrieving! Seems to be an all around handy dog. Will specifically goog temperments and health issues...

Any opinions?

God will not give you more than He can bear

lipigirl
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Re: All purpose dog?

As they are not that common I have not had any thing to do with them personally but then again I have a LOT of breeder and showing friends and in the same respect I have not heard anything bad about them either...worth looking in to certainly.

critterkeeper
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Re: All purpose dog?

I also don't have any exerience with them, but then again, like Amanda, I have not heard anything bad either. I will say though that they are TERRIERS and as such, that feisty side of their personality must be taken into consideration (which is why I love my mastiff - she's as lazy as I am...rofl).

Kylene "A dog has lots of friends because he wags his tail and not his tongue." ~ Anonymous

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

:lol: I want to do ALOT with the new dog...herding, agility, CGC, tracking/rescue, and of course keeping vermin out of the feed shed, and unwanted wandering dogs off the property.

God will not give you more than He can bear

lipigirl
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Re: All purpose dog?

Just heard from a friend who judges and she said that Blues are good as Terriers but they don't get on with cats and ther small animals. She suggested a Giant Schnauzer - now they I do like and they are not that much bigger than the blues !!

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

??? Giants can be 80+lb and I thought KBT's topped out at 45? Remember, I want to do all of the above AND be able to take the dog with us sailing and on cross country car trips comfortably. Did she say why she preferred giants to standards?

God will not give you more than He can bear

vneerland
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Re: All purpose dog?

I do endorse the sentiments that some schauzers are lovely, but that there is a large section of the population that is...uh....a bit less pleasant or easy to live with. Regardless of what breed attracts you though, if you really want your dog to do a 'job' then I would suggest selecting from parents that actually do what you intend for your pup. Your chance of success increases greatly that way. For example: get a SAR dog out of SAR parents or animals otherwise working in scent discrimination, get a herder out of working stock, etc etc. If you are going to take the 'job' seriously that is. If it is just for passtime for you and your dog, with no hopes of finding earthquake victims in Haiti, then you can afford to be a lot less choosy. ;)

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

Hmmm, I guess I would be looking for a litter for whom one parent was a tracker and one was a herder then, and pick my pup based on willingness to take instruction? I have seen vids of both with the standards and the giants, and herding vids of the KBT, but not both in the same dog! Don't herding dogs have to track to find any lost stock? That would be mostly air scent I imagine though, not far off, and the ground scent would be horribly mangled.

Wow, lots of thinking spurred by this.

God will not give you more than He can bear

vneerland
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Re: All purpose dog?

Hmmm, I guess I would be looking for a litter for whom one parent was a tracker and one was a herder then, and pick my pup based on willingness to take instruction? I have seen vids of both with the standards and the giants, and herding vids of the KBT, but not both in the same dog! Don't herding dogs have to track to find any lost stock? That would be mostly air scent I imagine though, not far off, and the ground scent would be horribly mangled.
Wow, lots of thinking spurred by this.

I would say you are looking for a litter where both parents have high prey drive and pick the pup that does not get tired of bringing back a thrown toy and that will keep looking for it once it loses it. Scent work is usually driven by the desire for the reward at the end, usually an object (like ball or tug) to play and interact with the handler with. Actual herding dogs are also driven by that same prey drive but the fair warning is that a terrier has not been bred to herd, nor has a schnauzer. They will lack the natural desire (that true herders do have) to keep a group together. Of course, there are herders and lifestock guardians. A herder will also protect and move, while a guardian does not move but will go after intruders and dangers facing the herd. The 'willingness to take instruction' is what some call 'will to please'. Some breeds lack all that desire and are only willing to please themselves. Other breeds take pleasure in the connection with their handler/owner and tend to interact happily and willingly. Training becomes enlessly more fun for the handler if the dog is asking what it can do next, versus a dog that has to be made to comply with the simplest of tasks.
In my own experience, neither of the breeds that have caught your interest take undying pleasure in performing for their handlers, so again, depending on what you expect to get out of it, you may be putting in more effort for your desired result. If you are set on the Schnauzer route, I would probably find a family of giants that do something like Schutzhund (IPO) which proves both scent work and ability to take direction from the handler.

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: All purpose dog?

pick the pup that does not get tired of bringing back a thrown toy

Sounds more like a Jack Russell terrorist to me!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Diane

vneerland
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Re: All purpose dog?

Sounds more like a Jack Russell terrorist to me!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Hah! You'd be surprised. :D I have seen one do protection work (just because the owner would take him to the field when he was working his 'real' working dog) and besides being hard to motivate to do things they don't see much sense in (the 'will to please') they do fit a very large part of the description. I have seen some in SAR too. ;)

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

Good suggestion! I am tempted to find an "oops" litter with a herder and terrier parent blend. But I want to do AKC trials, sigh.

God will not give you more than He can bear

critterkeeper
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Re: All purpose dog?

Regardless of what breed attracts you though, if you really want your dog to do a 'job' then I would suggest selecting from parents that actually do what you intend for your pup. Your chance of success increases greatly that way. For example: get a SAR dog out of SAR parents or animals otherwise working in scent discrimination, get a herder out of working stock, etc etc. If you are going to take the 'job' seriously that is. If it is just for passtime for you and your dog, with no hopes of finding earthquake victims in Haiti, then you can afford to be a lot less choosy. ;)

I whole heartily agree with that ideology...but, then again, there are exceptions to every rule. Each individual puppy needs to be evaluated seperately for personality and willingness to learn. Bloodlines only go so far and offer a "potential", but it's the individual that has to live up to that potential.

Kylene "A dog has lots of friends because he wags his tail and not his tongue." ~ Anonymous

TwinCreeksFarm
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Re: All purpose dog?

Just get a Border Collie and be done with it! Jeesh....

:D :twisted:

TwinCreeksFarm
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Re: All purpose dog?

Did you ever 100% find the breed you're looking for??

What about the Belgium Tervuren. I came across it today, and it sounded like a nice dog. This is interesting too: Go to http://animal.discovery.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; > pet source > dog breed selector, and it asks you 10 questions and will give you a list of breeds you'd be most compatible with.

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

The hard part is that I am looking at the 30lb range (for sailboat compatability). There is the Pumi, related to the Puli, but without the hair! (hungarian herding terrier!) I want to do avalanche SAR, so the dog has to be somewhat cold tolerant. Mini-aussie? But do they work as well as an aussie?

God will not give you more than He can bear

TwinCreeksFarm
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Re: All purpose dog?

Just find a smaller sized Border or smaller sized Aussie that has been used for herding or the like. Not sure how the mini-aussie would fair, considering they are bred as pets mainly??... My Border Collie's are from 30-50 lbs, averaging 40 lb

vneerland
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Re: All purpose dog?

What about the Belgium Tervuren. I came across it today, and it sounded like a nice dog. This is interesting too: Go to http://animal.discovery.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; > pet source > dog breed selector, and it asks you 10 questions and will give you a list of breeds you'd be most compatible with.

Tervs are nice enough. Not 'serious' workers, but my view of that is off compared to what most people like. They are the lesser workers among the 4 varieties of Belgian shepherds. Best workers the malinois, then tervurens and groenendaels (aka belgian sheepdog in the USA) and lakenois too rare to rate.
I was actually impressed with the selector in your link. I have answered questions truthfully in the past only to be matched with something I would never in a million years tolerate or appreciate. In this selector, I got directed to the group that I actually have. My own breed not listed in there, but that's a rarity thing, not a judgement about them, I'm sure.

The hard part is that I am looking at the 30lb range (for sailboat compatability).

How small is that boat? :mrgreen: I am sure a large (45+) lbs dog would still fit a sailboat just fine. Your boat reference brought Schipperke's to mind though. Lovely feisty little beasts, though not insane or crazy.

lipigirl
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Re: All purpose dog?
What about the Belgium Tervuren. I came across it today, and it sounded like a nice dog. This is interesting too: Go to http://animal.discovery.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; > pet source > dog breed selector, and it asks you 10 questions and will give you a list of breeds you'd be most compatible with.

Tervs are nice enough. Not 'serious' workers, but my view of that is off compared to what most people like. They are the lesser workers among the 4 varieties of Belgian shepherds. Best workers the malinois, then tervurens and groenendaels (aka belgian sheepdog in the USA) and lakenois too rare to rate.
I was actually impressed with the selector in your link. I have answered questions truthfully in the past only to be matched with something I would never in a million years tolerate or appreciate. In this selector, I got directed to the group that I actually have. My own breed not listed in there, but that's a rarity thing, not a judgement about them, I'm sure.

The hard part is that I am looking at the 30lb range (for sailboat compatability).

How small is that boat? :mrgreen: I am sure a large (45+) lbs dog would still fit a sailboat just fine. Your boat reference brought Schipperke's to mind though. Lovely feisty little beasts, though not insane or crazy.

Yes now they ARE nice little dogs !!

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

Are there working lines? What do they do?

God will not give you more than He can bear

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

I took the quiz, and #1 suggestion is Schipperke, also very near the top 95% match rates are Scottish, Bedlington, Border, Carin, Dandie Dinmont, Norfolk, Tibetian, Norwich, Lakeland and Australian terriers. Also Shiba Inu, Standard Schnauzer, & Basenji.

So, back to finding a line of herding terriers I guess! Unless anyone has heard of a herding Schip?

The sailboat is a First26, 28' end to end. We had our old man on the boat, and he wasn't very comfortable. He ranged from 55lb skinny to 70lb when he was fat!

God will not give you more than He can bear

NZ Appaloosas
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Re: All purpose dog?

If it is any help, I know someone who is doing the border collie thing on a boat...some sort of river boat, travelling the rivers and waterways of Europe, and they live on it full time. Dog's great on the boat, from all reports.

Diane

Tianateke
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Re: All purpose dog?

I'd like to order a 35lb red bitch!

God will not give you more than He can bear

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