Wild Brumby Cull

Ive sent an email

Thank you for your support. I have also contacted our Prime Minister.

First question has to be "Do they, in fact, need to be culled?"

[b]I support all attempts to have this situation carried out in the most humane manner possible for the Brumbies. I do not think sniper shots at a moving target from a moving helicopter will be humane. Botched shots create the possibility of horrible suffering occuring before finally succumbing from sustained wounds.[/b]
With that said, I am sure the Brumby's numbers do need to be controlled but method is going to have to be taken into consideration in addition to cost, time, man-power, terrain and accessibility.

Here in the US we are mostly managing our feral horse ([i]mustang[/i]) herds through helicopter round ups, gently herding them to areas where 'wings' have been made that lead to the various traps that hold the different herd-groups until/while they are sorted and their fates decided. Most horses may begin the roundup at a gallop but slow to canter and even a relaxed and gentle trot, few horses 'blowing' excessively; personnel are trained to watch for signs of excess panic and to not overly stress and/or break up family units and will back off.
It is not feasable to gather these American herds by horseback.
The amount of ground that needs to be covered is vast, with small herds here/there scattered everywhere. The terrain is rough and hazardous, much too hazardous to risk costly, well-bred and well-trained riding horses ([i]and by association their riders[/i]) IMO. Riders could be used for the last leg to the wings/traps, transitioning from helicopter to horseback, but to perform the entire gather on horseback would be completely ineffective.

How are other wild fauna populations controlled?
[i]As an example in America, our deer and ungulate herds are controlled through hunting, utilizing private citizens and specific hunting seasons to ensure little/no orphaning occurs. It has been argued with me, by someone at a pet forum, that hunters are only in it to *kill*. She was completely unable to grasp that most hunters are ethical, responsible and respectful, using the meat they hunt and/or donating that meat to shelters so it isn't wasted if they don't wish to use it themselves. The monies for purchasing tags to hunt these fauna goes back into programs to protect and maintain healthy numbers and habitat in addition to stimulating the economy with the amount of additional products and services these hunters buy.
Her main argument was: 'if it is only for population control, why doesn't the government (forest rangers) handle it themselves and not make the public do this nasty job for them?'
She had no idea of the scope of this project she was suggesting.
Hunting season is a few short weeks or months, depending on the species, the amount of habitat both near and remote where these animals live and exactly how much man-power is needed to accomplish this within the specified amount of time. There simply are not enough government employees with the necessary skills to be able to do this job themselves when the public is a large and free-labor "work force" able to do this job of government control of wild fauna within the specified amount of time ... AND ... the government gets to collect revenue from the hunters! Win-Win! Government keeps viable herd populations controlled and the public get to tramp around in the woods and harvest their own sustenance from nature, for themselves, their family, friends and community.[/i]

I understand horses cannot/willnot be hunted like other species. This is why other humane methods need to be employed. I advocate for helicopter round up to established areas with wings, traps, and corrals to sort and decide their fates. Not sniper shooting from helicoptors at moving targets.
heidi

I wonder why no-one has thought of hunting horses?
After all, not everyone views them as we do.
Also, of course, I am seeing "hunting" through UK tinted glasses, where you go out to shoot a specific animal, with a trained guide, not through US beer goggles where, as I am informed, if you do not shoot the neighbours dog, or yourself in the foot, or a cow, you are ahead on points.... :booty

The feral horses are a problem but, I have to say, I would much rather see them gently and humanely herded into state run abattoirs, than I would see them kept on dry lots, like cattle, as they are in the states , due, I have to say, to misguided people believing they are better off alive than dead.

RF - unfortunately yes, they do need to be culled. Thanks to the government they are not 'controlled' at all. The governments philosophy seems to be to wait until it gets to be a BIG job and then go in all guns blazing, literally in this case :(

I believe if a select group of individuals were to organise a controlled muster every one to two years, the population of horses can be kept at a manageable level. Things have been let go for to long now and now it is the horses that will ultimately suffer.

They and the Land Management people could not, it would appear, find their backsides with both hands in a well lit room.
Are there no women on these committees??
It may not be politically correct to say this but, basically, there is one heck of a lot of dogfood running around, and all you have to do is set up a [u]proper[/u] well run, humane, government owned, slaughterhouse to deal with them!!
A little bit of extra training, in how to handle horses, and most slaughtermen with an IQ above 65 could manage to kill even the wildest horse , first time, and humanely.
My knacker, who has an IQ well above average to start with, is called to dispatch anything that no-one else can deal with. Once he had to get in a lorry that had overturned, and dispatch a Welsh colt that had never been touched and had broken a leg. The lorry was on it's side, the colt was beyond any sort of reason.
He went in thinking "this could kill me" and came out, a few minutes later, having done his job!
He said he's done a few like that.
It takes longer, that's all, to be humane.
It takes thought, and care, and sensitivity.
This is a man who does this for a living, and whose whole family is involved.
He always remembers they are living creatures.
I would have no-one else to send my animals on their way.
He is not the only one, all it takes is a bit of effort to find them.

RF, re: US hunters ... :rofl That was another argument that lady used and I tried to explain to her that handful of idiots were *not* ethical hunters but she wanted to paint all of them with the same damning brush. :hammer

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]
It may not be politically correct to say this but, basically, there is one heck of a lot of dogfood running around, and all you have to do is set up a [u]proper[/u] well run, humane, government owned, slaughterhouse to deal with them!!
[/quote]
First, your Knacker sounds like a wonderful man. I used to love to watch the man who came to our property to slaughter our cattle and hogs which we raised for our own consumption. He was quiet and efficient. Once he got used to 'this kid' watching him, he allowed me to get closer and ask all sorts of questions about the inner-workings of our livestock. I found it fascinating.
...and I think I'm gonna save up that politically UNcorrect quote of yours to use myself at the next slaughter debate on the big horse forum. ...and like you, I greatly disagree with keeping these feral horses in dry-lots by BLM. It is a *shame* the US outlawed horse slaughter for human consumption. That alone has harmed the horses of the US more than any other thing. Even more so than the advent of the motor vehicle and farm machinery.

just emailed them too. Have you thought of setting up a partition then you could put it on facebook and twitter??

edited to add: I think all hunting is horrible, men get a kick out of it and you can bet on it that many animals suffer. :hammer :BH

Are there any links to this story?
I am sure you could raise a lot of stink in the equine world for people to indeed petition the government. :shock:

Well, I hesitate to do so, as there quite obviously is a problem and although I do not think this is necessarily the best answer, and answer does have to be found.
They are a pest.
OK, they did not ask to be there etc. etc, but if I had pretty useless feral horses knocking my fences down and running off with my mares, I should be less than happy!

I know your feelings on the subject Rabbit. I was not suggesting that an uncontrolled population is the answer. Just shudder about the chosen method :evil:

[quote="rabbitsfizz"]I wonder why no-one has thought of hunting horses?
After all, not everyone views them as we do.
Also, of course, I am seeing "hunting" through UK tinted glasses, where you go out to shoot a specific animal, with a trained guide, not through US beer goggles where, as I am informed, if you do not shoot the neighbours dog, or yourself in the foot, or a cow, you are ahead on points.... :booty .[/quote]

There are stupid people in all walks of life but to American hunters as stupid idiots that cant tell the difference between a cow and a turkey sounds to me like you beileve someones BS rantings. Most of my family are hunters and we eat what we kill, we kill only what we are after (and not the neighbors cow) and we most certainly do NOT drink while hunting. Try getting to know us before believing the "dumb hick" media portrail, because most medias including the USA's own do not portray most things about it people correctly, or in a very positive manor.

[quote="peruvianpasogal"][quote="rabbitsfizz"]I wonder why no-one has thought of hunting horses?
After all, not everyone views them as we do.
Also, of course, I am seeing "hunting" through UK tinted glasses, where you go out to shoot a specific animal, with a trained guide, not through US beer goggles where, as I am informed, if you do not shoot the neighbours dog, or yourself in the foot, or a cow, you are ahead on points.... :booty .[/quote]

There are stupid people in all walks of life but to American hunters as stupid idiots that cant tell the difference between a cow and a turkey sounds to me like you beileve someones BS rantings. Most of my family are hunters and we eat what we kill, we kill only what we are after (and not the neighbors cow) and we most certainly do NOT drink while hunting. Try getting to know us before believing the "dumb hick" media portrail, because most medias including the USA's own do not portray most things about it people correctly, or in a very positive manor.[/quote]
My dad hunts as well, responsibly, he's also a very good shot and wont take the shot unless he's sure he can drop the deer pretty fast and we count venison as our #1 meat through the year, with 1-2 deer we don't buy much beef. BUT I have meet the beer goggle type, they do exist :lol: I'm not sure about over here but Alabama was pretty...umm...I'd say don't go trail riding at the wrong time of year. As shown in that Top Gear episode "They shot their own sign!". :hammer :rofl

Sorry, I was not meaning to slag off [i]real[/i] hunters.....
I was having a pop at the idiots that take guns out into the woods and shoot at anything, up to and including, it would seem by the newspaper stories, their own unfortunate children!!
There is the story of the man that wrote "COW" on all his cows, and the fact that all Mini people are advised to keep their horses up during the first few days of hunting season!
I have NO problem with anyone who shoots their own food, I would if I could hit a barn that was standing still, but I can't. I am happy to occasionally hunt with my dogs (illegally!)and I do really wish I could shoot as I have deer on my land, only Muntjac, but there is good eating on them!

[quote="slaneyrose"]... men get a kick out of it ...
... many animals suffer.[/quote]
I respectfully disagree about 'getting a kick out of it'. [i]Real hunters[/i] respect the land, their prey and the ultimate sacrifice their prey makes so the hunter may provide sustenance for their family. These people will exude pride in a task well-done and do not yip, hoot or holler disrespectfully over their 'dead animal' as your comment implies.
As to animals suffering ... yes. Poor shots do happen. Good hunters try to minimize those variables so poor shots do not easily occur. Just as in nature, some prey are injured and do escape only to die later. The good hunters keep their shooting and tracking skills honed so this cannot easily occur.
Real hunters prepare, plan and care. Idiots do not. Anyone who 'gets a kick out of it' isn't a *real hunter* in mine or any other respectable person's book. That kind of hunter is contemptable and a disgrace to hunters everywhere.
heidi

[i]...just like true horsemen appreciate and care for their horses while the 'backyard idiots' do not and allow the care of their charges to suffer through neglect. I do not deny suffering happens all over but neither will I condemn all for the actions of the idiotic few and use that argument to say NO ONE should do whatever. Smacks of PETA to me. *not comparing you to Peta, just pointing out abuse is everywhere but beautiful things are still out there, too. Lets just keep those growing and not let the weeds take over.*[/i]

For over a hundred years and today still, hunters have and continue to sustain wildlife conservation. Hunting license fees and special taxes on hunting equipment fund state game and non-game management programs including our National Parks and National Wild life Refuges. Hunters were the first to see a need for conservation of game and the land for the game to roam on. With out the conservation that hunters and fishermen campaigned, paid and worked hard for we would today live without white-tailed deer, pronghorn antelope, elk, wild turkeys, wood ducks and hundreds of other cherished life forms. The general public either do not know, do not care, or refuse to believe this piece of hunter and angler history. Hunters and anglers led the revolution to save wildlife on the North American continent and remain today the most stalwart legion of support. Hunters are who demanded conservation in the first place.

I am married to a hunter we do not and have not bought meat in the 17 years I have known him. He averages 4-5 deer a year and we use them all sometimes including the hide which we tan. I can count on one hand the number of deer he has shot and not recovered (2) in the 17 years I have known him. I can also count on no hands (0) the number of cows, neighbor dogs and feet he has hit. His average alcohol consumption is about a 6 pack a year so he also does not over indulge and wander aimlessly about shooting up other peoples property. I have been hunting with him and have never noticed him rejoicing and dancing in glee over a suffering wounded deer, cow, neighbor dog, or random body part either.

[quote="Heidi"][quote="slaneyrose"]... men get a kick out of it ...
... many animals suffer.[/quote]
I respectfully disagree about 'getting a kick out of it'. [i]Real hunters[/i] respect the land, their prey and the ultimate sacrifice their prey makes so the hunter may provide sustenance for their family. These people will exude pride in a task well-done and do not yip, hoot or holler disrespectfully over their 'dead animal' as your comment implies.
As to animals suffering ... yes. Poor shots do happen. Good hunters try to minimize those variables so poor shots do not easily occur. Just as in nature, some prey are injured and do escape only to die later. The good hunters keep their shooting and tracking skills honed so this cannot easily occur.
Real hunters prepare, plan and care. Idiots do not. Anyone who 'gets a kick out of it' isn't a *real hunter* in mine or any other respectable person's book. That kind of hunter is contemptable and a disgrace to hunters everywhere.
heidi

[i]...just like true horsemen appreciate and care for their horses while the 'backyard idiots' do not and allow the care of their charges to suffer through neglect. I do not deny suffering happens all over but neither will I condemn all for the actions of the idiotic few and use that argument to say NO ONE should do whatever. Smacks of PETA to me. *not comparing you to Peta, just pointing out abuse is everywhere but beautiful things are still out there, too. Lets just keep those growing and not let the weeds take over.*[/i][/quote]

I agree all the hunters I know are into wildlife mgnt and conservaton of all our natural resorces and although there are the dumbass want to be hunters that isnt representative of the average hunter, and a well placed bullet is more efficiant than a captive bolt and anyone who eats meat and is anti hunting should be anti slaughter of any kind.

I'll have to agree with Rabbit about here in VA, idk about other states, but a majority of the hunters here are IDIOTS! They cut my fences and trespass on our land without any respect, and YES it has been seen where some dumbass shot a miniature mule, tied it up on his truck because he thought it was a deer, happened in my local area.....

I am not saying all people who hunt are this way, but in my particular area it is like that, they mostly hunt for sport and don't know what they're doing. I only agree with hunting for population control or to eat what you kill, but if you're doing population control there is no reason to take out the strongest buck, but to take out the weaker looking ones.

I agree with that if the brumbies do need culling, it should be done as humanely as possible. Shooting from moving helicopters isn't! There had been some horrific examples done in the past where so many of the horses weren't done with a single, neat shot (I imagine it wouldn't be easy to achieve from a moving helicpoter!) and those horses suffered greatly before dying.

So many of us in Aus would love for them to trial the infertility injection but we get excuses of it being too costly and hard to achieve because of some of the hard to reach grounds these horses are living in. For the record though, these brumbies aren't knocking down fences into people's properites. Those that seem to be most worried are the greenies and those connected to the National Park. For many years the brumbies did a great job of keeping down the grasses and reducing bushfire risks (as well as the cattle that they no longer allow up there). Now there are no brumbies in some of these areas and bushfires have become a serious threat. Not only is that to be considered but we have a large portion of wild deer in the same area BUT they allow registered hunters (assume they pay a premium each year or something) to shot the deers, on foot of course! No information is put out to the public on the issues of the deer as the deer are bringing in $$$. Too bad they're doing a lot more damage than the brumbies!

Anyway I've rattled on but Hey What The, are you a member of Eques? If not, it might be worth you joining and getting in contact with some of the members. One of them lives on the High Country and she knows quite knowledgable. Here is one current thread going on Eques now -

http://www.eques.com.au/discus/messages…" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps it would be worthwhile corresponding with those in the know and someone quite articulate. Then you could all contact Jack Thompson for support as a recognised face for the brumby situation. For those that don't know Jack Thompson is an older Aussie Actor that you would have seen in many movies such as The Light Horsemen and plenty of other aussie and american movies.

ps, in a rush so please excuse any typos or spelling mistakes :oops: