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Sooty Buckskin?

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Jordie0587
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Sooty Buckskin?
I am absolutely positively 100% sure this filly is BUCKSKIN but people STILL say she is dun. NOT DUN! http://fhotd64476.yuku.com/topic/29855" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Morgan
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

Sooty buckskin, slight chance of dunskin. the faint brindle type markings on the side are sooty and you can see in the bucking picture how the stripe that is on the rump just becomes a blob of dark on the rest of the back. The blurry shoulder bars mean nothing as my sooty had them as well. The golden mousy color is very typical of sooty buckskin.
And anyway the dam is obviously a DD so the colt MUST be a bucksin, the question would just be if he is a dunskin and if so I would expect him then to have a much more distinct dorsal and a lighter coat.
Does the dam have a dorsal? I seem to see one in some pics but I cant tell if its just dirt (like if you use a spot on) or lighting and the other pictures the exposure whites her out completely lol

Morgan
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

buckskin:
IMAGE(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/DangerRanch/Colors/Meli1.jpg)

these fuzzy pics are from when she had just turned 2, when she showed the slight brindling on the side and the shoulder "bars"
IMAGE(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/DangerRanch/Colors/Meli2.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/DangerRanch/melifall.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/DangerRanch/Colors/Meli3.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/DangerRanch/Colors/Meli4.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/DangerRanch/Mellie_0001.jpg)
I believe she had a buttermilk base as she had buttermilk sibblings and was very silvery (I called her my imitation grulla lol). The dorsal on her behind came and went. She was born a very muddy brown color with a stripe

Meli's hairs were banded like a cat. Four types:
solid silver-tan, found on belly and buttock
white base, black middle, tan tip, the majority
white base black tip, darker areas
solid black, only found mixed in along topline, and of course points

The placement of these different hairs seemed to acount for most of the odd patterning that she developed at different times (dapples and stipes). I'd be curious to know if this is common to sootys. most people just call sooty as black hairs are mixed in.
Interestingly her sister the palomino grew a dorsal one summer, it hasn't been back since. :?:

lipigirl
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

I thought the Dam looked like she does have a dorsal so actually think the foal could be a Dunskin with sooty.

accphotography
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

I don't think dun. Definitely buckskin. I don't really see sooty, just a dark shade.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Morgan
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

I don't really see sooty, just a dark shade.

smudgy shoulder...dark back blanket...stripe! where's that stick poking smilie? ok, this'll do: :whip

accphotography
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

Countershading. Of course for those that believe countershading is caused by sooty... (I'm not one of them).

He is in his darkest shed. I'll bet he sheds most of this off and into a nice golden coat as a 2yo (maybe even as 1yo).

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

Jordie0587
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

I'm almost positive that momma is just dirty in these pics. I've seen lots of pictures of her and have never noticed a dorsal. Pretty sure it's just dirty.

I dunno, I've seen lots of buckskin babies and not many that were this dark. I'm willing to bet she'll be very dark later and is sooty.

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Morgan
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

Countershading. Of course for those that believe countershading is caused by sooty... (I'm not one of them).

Sooty is an effect, not a known gene and since countershading and sooty seem very well realated, even though there are example of sooty horses without stripes and striped horses without smudges. I do put them both together. Anyway this colt is quite smudgy on the topline. Pure countershading is rather just a stripe.

Maigray
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

I also see only sooty buckskin, very typically so too. I agree with Morgan, if dunskin is there, it is not physically apparent.

I've always thought of it the other way around; that whatever causes countershading simply organizes sooty to its liking. I think as if it will take any "loose" pigment and gather it up into primitive patterns, as it does with grey for the amount of time pigment is available.

accphotography
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

Even if it is sooty, granted it could be, I think it will shed out. His coat is too clear IMO. He is darker than the average buckskin foal but I just don't see the dark marbling I would expect of a sooty at this stage. We won't know until it happens, but I'm predicting a dark, clear gold.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

rabbitsfizz
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

I am pretty sure that all "shades" of Buckskin are only caused by sooty on top of a Buckskin base....my Welsh mare was this colour...she was six or seven different horses in one year, but it was sooty that caused it...

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Heidi
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

I really can't make myself think that dorsal is prominent enough to say, unequivocably: dun. So, I'm gonna go with Buckskin. The dorsal *is* prominent over the rump, but it just seems to blend in with the scenery from the shoulders and into the back, getting darker and more pronounced over the loins and croup.

Jordie0587
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

I really can't make myself think that dorsal is prominent enough to say, unequivocably: dun. So, I'm gonna go with Buckskin. The dorsal *is* prominent over the rump, but it just seems to blend in with the scenery from the shoulders and into the back, getting darker and more pronounced over the loins and croup.

This is why I say BUCKSKIN. I just feel that in a QH/iberian mix the dorsal would be far more prominent along the whole back. I've just never seen a true dun (in the stock horse world) that didn't have a DEFINITE dorsal.

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accphotography
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Re: Sooty Buckskin?

Oh they're out there, especially if cream is also involved. Some can be virtually invisible.

These three are proven, by breeding, duns:

IMAGE(http://www.sbrformulaone.com/images/Slick2_000.JPG)

I've seen a shot of his back and his dorsal is not obvious (and he's not cream).
IMAGE(http://www.bakersshowhorses.com/playboy/profile2.jpg)

This one is tested and proven dunalino (and I'm told his dorsal is virtually non existant):
IMAGE(http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/1/2/6/4/5/December182006051.jpg)

I know I've seen another bay dun (or dunskin) and a grullo both who had barely visible dorsals (but were proven), but I can't find them right now.

IMAGE(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/accphotography/Misc/Sig.png) IMAGE(http://phrf.pitapata.com/uno2m5.png)

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