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Calico tobiano

Dr. Sponenberg's book has a chapter on calico tobianos. So I Googled the term, and only come up with a few hits - almost all related to Dr. Sponenberg's book. There was a photographic example in the book but it's small and I can't quite figure it out. Does anyone know of any shots of calico tobianos?

accphotography Tue, 04/14/2009 - 01:47

I Googled with no luck whatsoever except for a Choctaw site that didn't tell me what it is. I have no idea. It's the first time I've ever heard the term.

Paintlover Tue, 04/14/2009 - 09:09

I couldn't find any info either. I think you have a newer edition of his book then I do because he doesn't make mention of it at all in my book that I have found.

Gander Tue, 04/14/2009 - 10:37

It's the new book, out April 2009.

The chapter starts with "A very few buckskin and palomino tobiano horses have colored areas that consist of irregular patches of red or dark tan as well as the expected yellow.... These are called buckskin calico tobiano or palomino calico tobiano, depending on which background color is present...."

rabbitsfizz Tue, 04/14/2009 - 11:27

Ooh...that [i]is[/i] interesting!!!
Notice no dapples on the "red"bits????
Makes sense as a calico cat is all different colours and it distinguishes form chimera....

accphotography Tue, 04/14/2009 - 12:26

That occurred to me, but the Choctaw implied it would breed true (well it seemed that way since they said they were trying to continue the horses) and I didn't think one patch (which is commonly all it is) would qualify a horse as calico. This is another time I would point the finger at Sponenberg for comign up with another crazy new term, except apparently he didn't come up with this one either. :laugh1

I would suspect chimeric or possible somatic.

Heidi Tue, 04/14/2009 - 12:37

[quote="accphotography"]...I didn't think one patch (which is commonly all it is) would qualify a horse as calico.[/quote]

This horse has five patches: Withers, barrel, flank, chest (between forelegs) and belly.

accphotography Tue, 04/14/2009 - 12:46

I didn't mean the horse you posted. I just meant the majority of horses I have seen with these odd patches only had one of them, and I didn't think that would warrant calling the effect a calico (as to me calicos have lots of spots). If I had been naming it I would have been more inclined to name the spot as opposed to the overall effect. Like "Bend Or spot" implies only one spot, but you could say "multiple Bend Or spots" to qualify that the horse has more than one. I wouldn't say (for example) that horse is a "faux appaloosa" or something just because it has multiple Bend Or spots.

Sorry, maybe that's a soapbox for me. :lol:

Sara Tue, 04/14/2009 - 12:53

These are the same patches that can occur on solid horses, correct? I can't see any reason why it would be linked with tobiano.

We've seen plenty of horses with odd mismarks and in the absence of an explanation they get lots of colorful names, I think. A Welsh breeder sent me this photo of one of her mares (I have permission to post it and have posted it before) with a large mismark/sooty patch/?? Her name is Hew Moon Shine.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/…]

I realize this is different since this mare is not a cream dilute, but does show an obvious mismark. Could it be something like a birthmark?

Gander Tue, 04/14/2009 - 13:01

What interesting photos! Heidi, I'd say that's exactly what he's writing about; and Sara, that is one interesting marking on that pony!

acc, you mention that Dr. Sponenberg apparently didn't come up with the term...but as he's related to almost every online reference, perhaps he did (?).

Heidi Tue, 04/14/2009 - 15:43

Whoops! No, ACC, I was just pointing out the difference between the 1-spot comment and how this horse has 5 spots.
No biggie!

accphotography Tue, 04/14/2009 - 22:21

Sara I really think that horse may have a somatic mutation. I've honestly not seen spots like on the horse Heidi posted on non tobianos.

Gander the oldest reference I found was Choctaw Indian site and I got the impression they coined the term.

rabbitsfizz Wed, 04/15/2009 - 12:39

No, I can see what you are getting at, but the horse shown is something else, and I am OK with "calico", it's a nice word!!!
I do think you are right about the chimeric effect, but maybe not only that going on??
I doubt very much that this would breed true, after all no other pattern on record does, why would this one be the exception??